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Old 19-01-2009, 11:42   #31
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You're not nuts but every boat plan is a compromise. It's a useful exercise to figure out the negative for every positive.

If "green" is important to you - and I think it will become more and more important to every boater - you really need to give wind power a chance. Bio fuel is better than fossil fuel but not even close to wind power. It's also not easy to find hundreds of gallons of bio fuel. Sails also keep boats from rolling - a real problem for powerboats going slow to save fuel and without stabilizers.

As a "starter" to sailing, you could just use a genoa on a roller furler at the bow when going with the wind. You're not racing! You would unroll it when you felt totally in control. Roll it in the moment it becomes worrisome. I'm willing to bet that this would cut your fuel usage by 50-70%.

Think about getting under 50ft. Dockage prices really start going up at 50. Boat weight goes up epxonentially. It's a lot safer for someone new to boats to handle a 20,000lb boat than a 50,000lb boat.

If you heart is set on the wooden boat you've found, go checking for rot. You'll eventually have a professional survey but for now take a screwdriver or dull knife into the bilge and start poking around for rot. Check anywhere that is (or might have been) damp. Finding a little isn't a big problem but each piece of wood with a substantial soft place will have to be cut out and replaced - and the rotted area is always bigger than is first apparent. Many more boats die of rot than engine problems.


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Old 19-01-2009, 11:47   #32
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[quote=twisty;245609]It is the perfect size although when the phone

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Yep wood hull... That is the one thing that really bothers me about this thing. But it is in the water and hasn't been sitting on land so that makes me feel a little better about it
Twisty,

The overall plan sounds great! perhaps, this is not the boat though?

The wood hull, the overactive bilge pumps...etc...if you're nervous, you may have good reason...After all this is supposed to be fun! You've raised your son...sold the business...

You're supposed to Anchor the boat...not let the Boat Anchor you.

You will pay alot of money for a good survey, I imagine your insurance company will require one. I kind of look at the survey as a the final confimation of what I already know to be a sound vessel but I may have missed a few things. I would get to know this boat better..before I laid out money on a survey....will they short haul it at their expense so you can see her bottom....

I'm guessing that since you'll be living aboard with a teenager, you like the amount of room. After all it is going to be your home. But if you're traveling with the weather.....smaller, less maintenance, lets you get out doors to enjoy it more...with more money in your pocket.

The other thought that occurs to me is, that you're going up and down the ICW. Do you really need a big twin engine that will do 30 knots?
Most of the time you'll be doing 10....

What other vessels have you looked at?
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Old 19-01-2009, 12:08   #33
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[quote=Tempest245;245628]
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It is the perfect size although when the phone



Twisty,

The overall plan sounds great! perhaps, this is not the boat though?

The wood hull, the overactive bilge pumps...etc...if you're nervous, you may have good reason...After all this is supposed to be fun! You've raised your son...sold the business...

You're supposed to Anchor the boat...not let the Boat Anchor you.

You will pay alot of money for a good survey, I imagine your insurance company will require one. I kind of look at the survey as a the final confimation of what I already know to be a sound vessel but I may have missed a few things. I would get to know this boat better..before I laid out money on a survey....will they short haul it at their expense so you can see her bottom....

I'm guessing that since you'll be living aboard with a teenager, you like the amount of room. After all it is going to be your home. But if you're traveling with the weather.....smaller, less maintenance, lets you get out doors to enjoy it more...with more money in your pocket.

The other thought that occurs to me is, that you're going up and down the ICW. Do you really need a big twin engine that will do 30 knots?
Most of the time you'll be doing 10....

What other vessels have you looked at?
I have looked at smaller, everything from 36 up, but you nailed it, space, I need my space, he needs his, the dog and cat need theirs. With that said, I am looking at others as well, I found another one much smaller that I like as well, the price is right, just completely redone, new motor, updated everything for half the money. But there is that space issue. I do see exactly what everyone is saying though, it will be rough for just me when the youngin' goes off to college. And I really could live with smaller as long as the goal was to get him off to college and me out on my own.

You all have given me soooo much to think about. I like the sailboat idea, but still have those fears to overcome. The idea of less maintenance is nice to, I love to fish or just spend an afternoon on the little boat in the marsh with a book watching the wildlife, a smaller boat would definitely afford me more time to do that.
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Old 19-01-2009, 12:27   #34
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[quote=twisty;245639]
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Originally Posted by Tempest245 View Post

I have looked at smaller, everything from 36 up, but you nailed it, space, I need my space, he needs his, the dog and cat need theirs. With that said, I am looking at others as well, I found another one much smaller that I like as well, the price is right, just completely redone, new motor, updated everything for half the money. But there is that space issue. I do see exactly what everyone is saying though, it will be rough for just me when the youngin' goes off to college. And I really could live with smaller as long as the goal was to get him off to college and me out on my own.

You all have given me soooo much to think about. I like the sailboat idea, but still have those fears to overcome. The idea of less maintenance is nice to, I love to fish or just spend an afternoon on the little boat in the marsh with a book watching the wildlife, a smaller boat would definitely afford me more time to do that.
You've received a lot of good advice, twisty, and I gather that you're just more comfortable on a power vessel. Nothing wrong with that. And if you really think that you'll stay in the ICW, then the big San Lorenzo seems a bit much.

Have you given any thought to a power cat? Something like a PDQ 34. The stability that a cat affords might take care of your tendency to seasickness, but I think that will diminish over time anyway. In addition to being more stable, the 34' cat will seem even bigger than the 54' motor yacht down below.

Two hulls will be able to provide privacy to an even greater extent than a big mono, plus you'll love the "sociability" of its saloon and top deck. Cruising down the ICW at the bridge controls in the company of your son and/or friends will be a wonderful experience, IMHO. Plus, the all-fiberglass structure takes care of the rot issues.

The twin Yanmar diesels of 100hp will be a piece of cake for someone with your mechanical abilities, and you and your son can easily handle a vessel of this size. And, should you ever opt to take the hop across the stream, the shallow draft cat is ideal for the Bahamas.

Even if your seasickness remains a problem, you could always arrange to have others take it across for you and meet it in, say, Hopetown. Cruising the Bahamas will be very similar to the small demands of cruising the ICW, twisty, and you will fall in love with the islands.

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Old 19-01-2009, 13:17   #35
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[quote=TaoJones;245644]
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Originally Posted by twisty View Post
You've received a lot of good advice, twisty, and I gather that you're just more comfortable on a power vessel. Nothing wrong with that. And if you really think that you'll stay in the ICW, then the big San Lorenzo seems a bit much.

Have you given any thought to a power cat? Something like a PDQ 34. The stability that a cat affords might take care of your tendency to seasickness, but I think that will diminish over time anyway. In addition to being more stable, the 34' cat will seem even bigger than the 54' motor yacht down below.

Two hulls will be able to provide privacy to an even greater extent than a big mono, plus you'll love the "sociability" of its saloon and top deck. Cruising down the ICW at the bridge controls in the company of your son and/or friends will be a wonderful experience, IMHO. Plus, the all-fiberglass structure takes care of the rot issues.

The twin Yanmar diesels of 100hp will be a piece of cake for someone with your mechanical abilities, and you and your son can easily handle a vessel of this size. And, should you ever opt to take the hop across the stream, the shallow draft cat is ideal for the Bahamas.

Even if your seasickness remains a problem, you could always arrange to have others take it across for you and meet it in, say, Hopetown. Cruising the Bahamas will be very similar to the small demands of cruising the ICW, twisty, and you will fall in love with the islands.

TaoJones
I hadnt thought about a power cat, but it is worth looking into. It would cure several issues all in one shot that is for sure. Space, that damn seasick thing(I have been on one and didnt have a problem being sick). OHHHHH now you have me thinking!
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Old 19-01-2009, 13:33   #36
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OHHHHH now you have me thinking!
Great!

The shallow draft will get you into anchoring opportunities that the deep draft vessels can only dream of using - so, even more privacy. And, if you want the ultimate in stability, check this option out:

34' PDQ MV/34 PassageMaker Photo 1 photo

Don't try this with the San Lorenzo!

If you're already in coastal Carolina, you have a lot of nearby PDQ M/V34s to go take a look at. Enjoy your search!

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Old 19-01-2009, 13:45   #37
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Hi

*This is meant in the nicest possible way and is just my humble but honest opinion*

I think I might go on the ‘not nuts but closing in on it’.
By the way, docking a 57 foot power boat here is $1202 per month. $2 per month more than your total budget.
Of course that’s no where near you but still your dockage will be high. Free anchorages in tight waters can be difficult.

I take it this boat is old? How old?

If a 40 footer is too small for you then you are looking without seeing.

Selling a going business for something not practical is a gamble not an investment.
You are buying a long term investment for someone who wont be there in a year or two (probably less – you can’t tie kids to your apron strings).
You think you can double or treble the profit of on internet business. I doubt it.
Your monthly budget of $1,200 is in the lowest third of all live aboard budgets by poll on this site…. And all those people will be on sailing boats that try not to turn the engine on and never stay at marinas.

I worked in an auto electrician shop on my school holidays and I can’t even replace the gas strut on the engine room door!

Biodeisel and green stuff is not cheap. As a retail outlet you know what the look of used cooking oil is. Would you really want that in a $20,000 engine without it being re-refined?

Yes, living aboard and having a wonderful life is a reality however it must be centred in absolute truths or you will ruin everything you have worked for and loose all your money.
Keep working for a while and take some sailing lessons. Learn through practical experience to answer all the questions you are putting out here to us.

People here can help with advice on how to seal a leaking window or how to tie a knot, but how can people apart from yourself give you advice that is not easy to accept? Its human nature. Only you through experience will begin to know the truth.

A first boat that is a 57 foot motor boat (not new) on a budget that is at all restricted, is nuts.


Sorry this post sounds negative. Really its a positive if taken the best way.

Mark
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Old 19-01-2009, 14:22   #38
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Powercat is a great idea. Advantages:

The two hulls will be much more private for your son.

It won't roll

Most of the time, you can run on just one 100hp engine for better engine life and great fuel economy (and cats are more fuel efficient to begin with). As you probably know diesels are happier and more fuel efficient at about 70-80% of rated RPM. With big engines you have to go awfully fast to get to those RPMs.

It only weight 15,000 pounds.

The fiberglass hull still takes maintenence work to keep it looking good but it isn't going to turn into a nightmare.

Now, if you'd only think about getting a powercat with a mast (known as catamaran) you'd really be all set.

There are even green advantages to getting a catamaran and not using the sails. If you are happy motoring at 8 knots then the smaller engines in the catamaran will be more fuel efficient and quieter than the powercat. What's your hurry? And the mast is a great place to put your radio antenna and to hang flags on holidays.

There are many more catamarans than powercats on the market. You might find a good deal. Shop both and see how you feel.

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Old 19-01-2009, 14:57   #39
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"OHHHHH now you have me thinking"


Great!

Notice ......that no one is trying to talk you out of the dream....to the contrary...
We expect to be invited for coctails in NC or FL.....so keep planning.
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Old 19-01-2009, 15:00   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Hi

*This is meant in the nicest possible way and is just my humble but honest opinion*

I think I might go on the ‘not nuts but closing in on it’.
By the way, docking a 57 foot power boat here is $1202 per month. $2 per month more than your total budget.
Of course that’s no where near you but still your dockage will be high. Free anchorages in tight waters can be difficult.

I take it this boat is old? How old?

If a 40 footer is too small for you then you are looking without seeing.

Selling a going business for something not practical is a gamble not an investment.
You are buying a long term investment for someone who wont be there in a year or two (probably less – you can’t tie kids to your apron strings).
You think you can double or treble the profit of on internet business. I doubt it.
Your monthly budget of $1,200 is in the lowest third of all live aboard budgets by poll on this site…. And all those people will be on sailing boats that try not to turn the engine on and never stay at marinas.

I worked in an auto electrician shop on my school holidays and I can’t even replace the gas strut on the engine room door!

Biodeisel and green stuff is not cheap. As a retail outlet you know what the look of used cooking oil is. Would you really want that in a $20,000 engine without it being re-refined?

Yes, living aboard and having a wonderful life is a reality however it must be centred in absolute truths or you will ruin everything you have worked for and loose all your money.
Keep working for a while and take some sailing lessons. Learn through practical experience to answer all the questions you are putting out here to us.

People here can help with advice on how to seal a leaking window or how to tie a knot, but how can people apart from yourself give you advice that is not easy to accept? Its human nature. Only you through experience will begin to know the truth.

A first boat that is a 57 foot motor boat (not new) on a budget that is at all restricted, is nuts.


Sorry this post sounds negative. Really its a positive if taken the best way.

Mark
Excuse me? You are who?

in the nicest way possible you doubt me/judge me without even a clue!

1. Did you read anchorage, ya know on the hook. Come to NC sometime and I will show you people doing just that for not a penny a day. We have a thing here called the sound, thats not the ICW, from what I understand most of the coast south of here is like that too. In some places its over a 1 mile wide and usually a lot deeper than the ICW, which is on avg 100-150 yards. If you consider a mile wide spance of water tight quarters please stay out of our sound you really won't like in mid july when boats are anchored up about a half mile apart.

2. I can't double or even triple my internet biz? And just how do you know that? Tried it? Your not doing it right then. I started this biz over ten years ago from nothing, I stopped really working it 4 yrs ago after I bought my house, I respond to email once a day now, yet it still produces a decent sum a month. Imagine what I could do if I pushed it again... hmmmm

3. buying a long term investment for someone who won't be here in 2 years.. hmm I could have sworn I said that this was for me and he was in on the adventure. I'm not quite sure how you got buying it for him out of that but ok whatever. As for hanging on my apron strings, in case you haven't figured this out yet, I don't wear aprons. It is his choice to come along. Some people have good relationships with their children and they want to stick around. Its called treating children and people in general with respect.

4. because you can't replace a gas strut on an engine room door doesn't mean everyone can't, or should I say doesn't mean a woman can't? Where are you I'll gladly come do it for you. I will even draw you pictures so you can do it yourself the next time. While I am at it would you like me to change the oil, replace a leaky gasket, build you an RO system(yeah I can do that from blueprints as well). My point, just because your not mechanically inclined doesn't mean everyone else isn't too, and because I am a woman means I am more determined than most men to do a job and do it correctly, the first time.

5. As a matter of fact the motor in the boat I am looking at goes for about $32k completely redone, but to answer your question yes I would put biodeisel in it. There is obviously a lot you don't know about biodiesel, like how you run it through multiple filters and possibly add a couple additives depending on your useage before even thinking of putting it through a motor of any cost. And yes I have seen how nasty it looks coming out of a fryer, but I have also seen it after filtering, it is almost its original color again, though with a slightly darker hue.

Here is a better idea, find another thread... yes move along now, thats rght, there you go....
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Old 19-01-2009, 15:08   #41
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Now, if you'd only think about getting a powercat with a mast (known as catamaran) you'd really be all set.

There are even green advantages to getting a catamaran and not using the sails. If you are happy motoring at 8 knots then the smaller engines in the catamaran will be more fuel efficient and quieter than the powercat. What's your hurry? And the mast is a great place to put your radio antenna and to hang flags on holidays.

There are many more catamarans than powercats on the market. You might find a good deal. Shop both and see how you feel.

Carl
Actually Carl that was just what I was reading about. I am curious though, lets just say I do get a wild hair across my backside and decide to go to the bahamas is this something that I could do that with with confidence?
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Old 19-01-2009, 15:14   #42
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"OHHHHH now you have me thinking"


Great!

Notice ......that no one is trying to talk you out of the dream....to the contrary...
We expect to be invited for coctails in NC or FL.....so keep planning.

Anytime you are up this way your more than welcome. I don't have a radio here at the house(if you get this direction before I hit the water) but several people do, just ask where the seafood house is that the little blonde owns, they will know exactly who you are talking about.
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Old 19-01-2009, 15:44   #43
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Now, if you'd only think about getting a powercat with a mast (known as catamaran) you'd really be all set.
Yes, a sailing cat is great if you're into sailing. Keep in mind, though, that sailing - for all its wonderful aspects - can be hard work!

A few advantages of not having that tall mast:

1 - Never having to wait for (most) bridges on the ICW to open for you.

2 - Being able to point the bow directly where you want to go, which always seems to be the direction the wind is blowing from.

3 - The option of operating the engines one-at-a-time on reduced power is very economical, as Carl said, but the bonus of having the inverse option of firing up both engines and getting somewhere fast can be equally attractive if weather is closing in.

I don't know the current state-lof-the-art, twisty, but it used to be that vehicles running on used cooking oil always carried that "there's a MacDonald's around here somewhere" smell with them. It's not that it isn't preferable to diesel exhaust, but you're bound to get comments.

I like your spirit, twisty, and it's clear to me that you will probably digest what you read here, then choose your own course and speed in any event. MarkJ is a good guy with the typical Australian outspokeness. He doesn't mean to offend you, I'm sure, and he is a wealth of firsthand cruising knowledge.

Come on, you two . . . make nice!

TaoJones
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Old 19-01-2009, 16:04   #44
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Yes, a sailing cat is great if you're into sailing. Keep in mind, though, that sailing - for all its wonderful aspects - can be hard work!

A few advantages of not having that tall mast:

1 - Never having to wait for (most) bridges on the ICW to open for you.

2 - Being able to point the bow directly where you want to go, which always seems to be the direction the wind is blowing from.

3 - The option of operating the engines one-at-a-time on reduced power is very economical, as Carl said, but the bonus of having the inverse option of firing up both engines and getting somewhere fast can be equally attractive if weather is closing in.

I don't know the current state-lof-the-art, twisty, but it used to be that vehicles running on used cooking oil always carried that "there's a MacDonald's around here somewhere" smell with them. It's not that it isn't preferable to diesel exhaust, but you're bound to get comments.

I like your spirit, twisty, and it's clear to me that you will probably digest what you read here, then choose your own direction in any event. MarkJ is a good guy with the typical Australian outspokeness. He doesn't mean to offend you, I'm sure, and he is a wealth of firsthand cruising knowledge.

Come on, you two . . . make nice!

TaoJones

There are definitely some advantages/disadvantages no matter what you do, but that is life.

There is still that theres a mcy D's around here smell, however given the choice between diesel fumes or fryer oil, I'll take take the fryer oil. I often wondered if that was why I was seasick, the smell of a diesel almost makes me gag, but at the same time is a lot safer so its a what I could live with thing and I know I could get use to it if I had to.

I will prolly get strange comments no matter what I do, I am a single women, that is going to be living on my boat traveling as much as possible, I think I can handle the few comments I can about the french fry powered boat.

He's Aussie? If I had known, that would have explained ALOT! There is a lot of things the internet can't provide, the benefit of an accent is one of those things. Personally I am a yankee with a southern drawl, I confuse the hell out of people.
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Old 19-01-2009, 18:09   #45
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Of course you can go to the Bahamas. You could go farther than that - cross an ocean. Boats are about going places. I know you're nervous about the sail thing but besides being really green it gives you freedom from the fuel dock.

Just don't do it right away - get to know your boat really well by taking a wide variety of easy trips. Find some old guy (or gal) at the marina who wants to show you how it's done. The only "charge" will be listening to a bunch of their stories and maybe a little beer.

If you're half as interesting as you sound, you'll have no problem gathering up some experienced crew for your trip to the Bahamas or beyond.

Carl
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