Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-03-2014, 16:46   #46
Registered User
 
JK n Smitty's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hingham, MA
Boat: Catalina 310
Posts: 637
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
+1

Hydronic is the best heating system for a boat if you need heating in weather too cold for reverse-cycle and/or you don't the power for it.

I sail all year round and can't imagine how I could do it without hydronic heating. I'm sitting on my boat basking in its warmth as I write this. At a latitude above 50 degrees N.

Keep in mind that there are a few disadvantages, however:

1. Cost.
2. It does use electrical power, unlike passive diesel heaters like drip-fed stoves, so you need to have a reasonable battery bank and reasonable way of keeping it charged.
3. It is not really user serviceable. And it is not totally reliable. So it's not too good for those who venture far from civilization.


Nevertheless, there is a time and place for electric heaters even on a boat with hydronic heat. I heat with two electric fan heaters, 2kW each, at docks (where I am rarely, since my boat lives on a mid-river mooring). I prefer to use the shore power which I already paid for instead of expensive diesel fuel, and I prefer not to put hours on the hydronic furnace, which needs service and decarbonizing every certain number of hours.

I have 230v AC power, which handles the load much more easily (exactly twice as easily, in terms of amps) than 110v. I have 16 amp service, so I can use one fan heater on high and one on low (1kW), with a little left over for other purposes, which is really enough heat when I'm alone on the boat, as I don't need to heat the fo'c'sle.

The fan heaters are vastly better than oil-filled radiators, as the latter can't dissipate their entire rated power and cycle on and off.

Mind sharing the brand of heater?
__________________

__________________
http://svsmitty.wordpress.com/
JK n Smitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:04   #47
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

I'm sure Dockhead will weigh in on his preferences; until then:

Hurricane is sold as a premium, marine system: Hurricane Heating Systems | International Thermal Research

Both Espar and Webasto are repurposed systems from trucking, buses, etc (but may be upgraded):

http://www.espar.com/products/fuel-operated-heaters/product-selection/coolant-heaters.html
Webasto:*Marine heating solutions: Coolant Heating

They all use diesel, and do a great job.

Greg
__________________

__________________
CarinaPDX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:36   #48
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Probably because the surveyors write them up as not compliant with ABYC and the insurance companies insist the owners get them off the boat.
That would be a good reason

Until recently they were sold at boat shows. I guess they [insurers] got tired of paying for burnt boats...

I started many years ago with a Hi Seas diesel bulkhead heater. Well, it looked like a good idea. The design was fatally flawed, with no feedback from burner oil level to flow control. Several boats were lost to fire. Personally, I went for a brief trip to the grocers and when I came back the sole was covered with hot diesel oil, and the overflowing burner was still flaming. I was very lucky. The insurers were not amused: Hi Seas couldn't renew their corporate liability insurance and went out of business. I bought a new SigMar heater (high fuel levels in the burner will close the carb's float valve).

Dickinson now offers a high temperature cut-off valve, which I bought and will be installing when I put the heater back in service.

Greg
__________________
CarinaPDX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:38   #49
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,743
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK n Smitty View Post
Mind sharing the brand of heater?
The hydronic system is an Eberspaecher (sold as "Espar" in the US). A comparable system, and apparently just as good, is the Webasto.

The fan heaters are no-name Chinese fan heaters, bought at the iron monger's on the high street in Cowes, Isle of Wight, a couple of years ago.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:42   #50
Registered User
 
Tim R.'s Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Portland, Maine
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert644 View Post
Tim R, does you heat pump work with air or water ? The unit I purchased in a domestic model that works with outside air. I have read that modern air to air household units are effective to below freezing, and that water based units are much more effective.
water.
__________________
Tim R.
Our Carina is sold
1997 Caliber 40LRC
TKR on a Boat Website
Tim R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:47   #51
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Another thought about the Espar and Webasto heaters: they are a lot less expensive if purchased though trucking channels instead of marine channels. The manufacturers discourage this practice. So buy your favorite owner of an 18-wheeler a beer...

Greg
__________________
CarinaPDX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:55   #52
Registered User
 
Tim R.'s Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Portland, Maine
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 604
We installed our Hurricane system ourselves 4 years ago and we do all the service. Aside from the controller it is a fairly simple system to maintain.

Here is the article I wrote for Living Aboard magazines a few years back: http://tkronaboat.com/heater-installation.html
__________________
Tim R.
Our Carina is sold
1997 Caliber 40LRC
TKR on a Boat Website
Tim R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 05:15   #53
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,743
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim R. View Post
We installed our Hurricane system ourselves 4 years ago and we do all the service. Aside from the controller it is a fairly simple system to maintain.

Here is the article I wrote for Living Aboard magazines a few years back: Heater Installation - TKRonaBoat
Nice looking unit and very well done installation!

Does it operate like the Espar/Webasto ones? So it's a forced-air burner with a glow plug ignitor? How often do you have to clean out the combustion chamber? How much fuel does it consume?
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 06:06   #54
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post

There is a range of wattage on the HDML heaters, from 500W to 2000W. I am guessing that this installation had the 2000W unit, which of course is equivalent to 1 1/3 space heaters, so is a great base.

It was the HDML-2 model (2 kW).

I haven't asked what their electric bills were like over this winter.

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 06:59   #55
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
pirate Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
...

I haven't asked what their electric bills were like over this winter.

-Chris
We have a winter (only) deal here with electric flat-rated at $50/month. A genuine bargain! Yeah, NC had a winter this year to my dismay. One morning I couldn't open the companionway slider due to inch-thick ice. Could have clambered out the forehatch but the dock looked treacherously icy even for a 10 legger like me.

I ran a ceramic cube in the V berth, and an Idylis infared fan from Lowes in the cabin. Shop Idylis Radiant/Quartz Compact Personal Electric Space Heater with Thermostat at Lowes.com

The Idylis was $100 and did a nice job keeping the uninsulated cabin comfy. And was a perfect size for feet propping. I kept thinking of a tarp over topside but never really needed it. I slept warmly in a quarter berth on the coldest nights. One night was 8.

I have one of those Mr Buddy propane jobs as well. It puts out a lot of heat and my boat is drafty enough to not pose a CO issue IMO. The downside is a 1lb can of gas was good for only a couple of hours. I also have the bulk adapter hose but never really needed to get serious about it.

The Smart Plug article by Maine Sail was scary enough for me. I'm shopping for the retro kit.
__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 10:50   #56
Registered User
 
JK n Smitty's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hingham, MA
Boat: Catalina 310
Posts: 637
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

I was researching the heaters that blue crab had and I found this: http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1

Claims to be almost 10K btu of heat. More than that for ac. And it's UL safety listed.

Anyone have any thoughts?
__________________
http://svsmitty.wordpress.com/
JK n Smitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 11:33   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,057
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK n Smitty View Post
Glad you had so much to add.
A little sympathy please. When Dockhead's hair stands on end he finds himself being chased all over by hordes of sex starved 12 year old girls who think he is Justin Beiber. Word has it that Mrs Dockhead is not amused. Anything that can help keep his hair in its original place would be greatly appreciated.

Click image for larger version

Name:	justin-bieber-2012-justin-bieber-32567515-1338-1600.jpg
Views:	452
Size:	168.8 KB
ID:	77957
__________________
savoir is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 11:34   #58
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,359
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK n Smitty View Post
I was researching the heaters that blue crab had and I found this: Shop Idylis 13000-BTU 550-sq ft 115-Volt Portable Air Conditioner with Heater at Lowes.com

Claims to be almost 10K btu of heat. More than that for ac. And it's UL safety listed.

Anyone have any thoughts?
One thing to keep in mind is noise. A small space heater or two on low are pretty quiet.
Regarding oil filled heaters; if you dont go out on the water maybe good, but would be a big , heavy, PITA I think if you leave the dock. The other thing I will say is in a cold winter... you need a heater that directs the heat at you.
If you have spent a winter aboard when it's cold you find out:
A) all the heat rises to the top of the cabin, your feet are freezing and your ears are hot.
B) the more you can direct the heat low to your feet/legs the better... it will rise after that anyway.
C) it's not like just trying to heat an insulated space, generally you loose heat as fast as you make it on a boat. (boats are 50% glass... try feeling your home window pane on a cold day... even a double insulated one!)
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 13:13   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 115
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

JKnSmitty,

This is exactly what I had posted earlier. The model I purchased is a Soleus LX-140. 14k cool and 14k heat at about 1100 watts current draw. I'll have it by mid to late April as it's being shipped from China by caravan apparently. I bought it as a refurb for $300 including shipping from Amazon. For the coming winter I plan on purchasing a forced air with 18k btu capacity and I'll supplement both with an oil filled (main cabin) and forced air (bunk and head). The forced air will be nice for drying the shower and warming the bunk at night, which is in the lowest part of the boat. It's alot of junk to have on the boat, but my boat is a liveaboard primarily, so there it goes. Also I intent to use only 20 amp service as it costs about $100 less a month than 30 amp service.

The heat pump is really an air conditioner in the truest sense. Not so much a heating or cooling device as a 'temperature moderation unit' to keep the boat comfy during the 6 non-winter months of the year. When it freezes outside then it's just a matter of running the forced air non-stop basically. I also plan on using a tarp over the forward half, and perhaps making reflectix blankets as well for the windows, the portion under the tarps.

I'm thinking of doing some kind of crazy half-tarp thing so I can keep my salon windows exposed. Having sunlight on the two or three non cloudy winter days is quite nice.

I think if a person had a sailboat then they could get a window mount heat pump and place it over their forward hatch. I've heard of people doing this for cooling A/C, I'm not sure how it would work for heating. Those units however seem to be quite a bit cheaper than the portable model heat pumps. Also, I can't imagine any sailboat that would have room to install one of those portable models.
__________________
robert644 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 15:00   #60
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Halifax,Nova Scotia
Boat: Hunter 36-80-82 Wanderer
Posts: 71
Re: Electric Heater for Liveaboard in Boston

I really don`t like coming on here because the people with so much experience and 20,000 hits and don`t own a boat have so much to say makes me sick.I have lived aboard a sailboat in Nova scotia for 17 years,8years on a 31 Grampion and 9 years on a 36 hunter.The best way that I can find to winter is to insulate your boat from the inside,if you do it on the outside you will get condensation,I have 2 1500 watt heaters and a 9000 BTU dickensen propane heater in the centre of the boat.I have my own power pole which I put in the last time I got back from the Bahamas and a private dock.I put one e-heater for`d and one by the companionway and cold nights I light the fireplace,-20c.+.I like my comfort ,so I`m talking warm.My power bill for for those four cold months is about 900.00.
__________________

__________________
wanderer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electric, liveaboard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Liveaboard in Boston, MA - Marina suggestions and regulations gtpinhei Liveaboard's Forum 14 21-01-2014 19:09
Excited to Liveaboard in Boston. rebeccav Meets & Greets 6 27-06-2013 08:09
Liveaboard 14' Canoe In Boston GaryMayo Challenges 43 19-12-2012 15:37
Force 10 Diesel Heater vs Taylor 068 Paraffin heater Tailwheel Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 3 23-10-2011 08:54
Gas Water Heater or Combined Calorifier / Immersion Heater ? simonmd Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 5 30-12-2010 08:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.