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Old 02-02-2019, 11:04   #76
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Re: Early 401K withdraw for ACA

It is so easy to spend other peoples money, time, swimming ability.

Life is not fair and there is much more than a boat full of injured and some good swimmers.

If life were fair some would not be in jail and others would be. Doctors would work for the same wages as a fry cook at McDonald's and help people out of the kindness of their hearts.

It is so easy to tell others how to spend their money (or to swim for the greater good). And yet so few give of themselves first.

The laws are imperfect but in our system each individual is allowed to take full advantage of the laws as written.

Other peoples money....
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:37   #77
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Re: Early 401K withdraw for ACA

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Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
It is so easy to tell others how to spend their money (or to swim for the greater good). And yet so few give of themselves first.

The laws are imperfect but in our system each individual is allowed to take full advantage of the laws as written.
Absolutely true. What we're seeing here is nothing more than a lot of self-serving jealousy. "He figured out a way to get more than me, and so he must be cheating somehow."


The analogy to swimmers pulling a boat is just absurd. People following the rules, following the law, and working within the system to reduce their taxes in whatever legal way they can are NOT CHEATING! Just because they are working within some portion of the system that some people don't understand, does not make their actions any less legitimate than anyone else's.


Get over it, for God's sake!
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:54   #78
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Re: Early 401K withdraw for ACA

As the OP I understand the agurement. Basically it is whether it is ethical, even if legal, to take the subsidy because I have savings. This is pretty much a classic case type study a college ethics class would use. It definitely wouldn’t be solved or answered here on a sailing forum, except in the minds of those who wish to dig in in support of their own personal answer.

When I took Legal and Ethics way back I finally came to acceptance that laws are written based on the group attempt to define ethical behavior. That doesn’t mean that following the law makes everything under it ethical to everyone. But the group as a whole determined that was the basic framework of acceptable behavior.

Personally I find nothing about the US health care system ethical. How can anything that consumes 20% of our GDP, yet still not provide universal health care, be ethical? I can pretty much say CF members from many other countries are mysterified by our whole system.
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Old 04-02-2019, 09:08   #79
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Re: Early 401K withdraw for ACA

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As the OP I understand the agurement. Basically it is whether ii is ethical, even if legal, to take the subsidy because I have savings.
I look at this in a simple way.
  • How many years did you work?
  • Did you pay taxes during those years?
  • Did the taxes you paid cost your more than the benefits that you received?
  • Add that all up.
  • Subtract any benefits that you have received.
  • Arrive at a final number that is hopefully near $0 when accounting for a conservative return on your money (paid taxes) around 5-8% on an annual basis adjusted for inflation.

My wife and I are in the top 10% of dual income earning households and pay a load of taxes into the system for SSI, etc. Our employer ALSO pays a ton into the system on our behalf.

At 34 years older (and her at 30) we have a strong inclination that we will NEVER recoup what our employer, and we, have paid into the system for SSI, etc.

That being the case, I have ZERO ethical issue taking every penny we can get, within the law, no matter the situation.

Net takers, over a lifetime, are an issue (if they could otherwise work and not be net takers). Net givers are not the issue. It sounds like there are a lot of net givers on the other side of the hump chiming in here. All of whom, I have no problems with.
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Old 04-02-2019, 09:25   #80
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Re: Early 401K withdraw for ACA

I gave at the office.
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Old 04-02-2019, 10:04   #81
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Re: Early 401K withdraw for ACA

Note that it's a common practice for people to ascribe moral superiority to characteristics that benefit themselves.

An example would be to look at one of the boat insurance threads. You'll find a lot of the folks with the largest and most expensive yachts banging the table about how having loads of insurance is a moral imperative.

I think our friend from Indiana has the same kind of issue.
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Old 04-02-2019, 14:58   #82
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Re: Early 401K withdraw for ACA

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.... How can anything that consumes 20% of our GDP, yet still not provide universal health care, be ethical? I can pretty much say CF members from many other countries are mysterified by our whole system.
Nice summary.
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