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Old 04-05-2014, 10:15   #76
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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Originally Posted by FollowingCs
For the last time, I can't buy a boat RIGHT NOW. I live in Ohio, and have a kid still in high school. My funds are tied up in real estate that can't be sold for the right price just yet in this down market, and probably won't be at least until the next Presidential election.
There's travelling and there's boating. Cruising combines them, of course.

You can buy a boat right now. There's a ton of boats, trailerable to maybe 25ft, that can be had for $6k or less, that you could be sailing and weekending on Lake Erie next week. So I don't know why the reluctance there.

We're near your target age. We're thinking about the long-term dream-boat too (I'm currently finalizing my taxes, and watching the dream-boat recede yet another year ) - but in the meantime, over the last 7 years, we've sailed the paint off of a smaller boat, done some weekends out each year, are building experience, and are refining our shared cruising goals. I cannot understand why anyone of middle age would wait to start anything, if it's possible to start it now. Just my opinion, of course.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:49   #77
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

I'm in the same position although I do live on the Gulf Coast. I have read many comments on these message boards about cost spreadsheets for cruising and I wanted to see if anyone had an example they could post? I doi realize they change depending on what your income and lifestyle is but an example would be fine. I have a few more years than the orignal poster but I'm in the same situation. Thanks
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:51   #78
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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Originally Posted by Rsmith3 View Post
I'm in the same position although I do live on the Gulf Coast. I have read many comments on these message boards about cost spreadsheets for cruising and I wanted to see if anyone had an example they could post? I doi realize they change depending on what your income and lifestyle is but an example would be fine. I have a few more years than the orignal poster but I'm in the same situation. Thanks
I have just one comment to make regarding boats.

Your first boat will not be your last. If you want to play, go learn on a first boat.

Jes' sayin'
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:22   #79
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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OOOoooo. I love videos. Thanks weavis! This does look pretty sweet, and the info is pretty good also. I love well put together marketing videos - good angles on the electronics, good 'action' of the boat in use. Nice.

All the best, FollowingCs
While I am happy with my Seawind opinions differ. Two 9.9 Yamaha long shafts are cheap, easy to fix/get fixed, don't need a shaft or sail drive, and can be lifted up to reduce drag. But some folks think the boat is under powered and gets poor gas mileage compared to inboards. I know folks who think the owners bunk is too high and hard to climb into. The condomarans definitely have more room. If you get a square top it seems to add at least one knot to top speed and probably more in light airs. But you have to disconnect the main halyard to get the sail in the stack pack, and climb on mast steps to reconnect it. I have never been North of the Florida border but some folks think the boat is not suited for cold weather, it is very open.

I spent a while in the dinky going around the harbor taking pix of the sterns of other cats. Many cats look like a brick wall from the back, and this pix of my boat shows just how open it is and how much visibility there is. The link is to my facebook page, always have trouble posting pix.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Bottom line is that there is no perfect boat, just that some boats are better for some things than others.
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:29   #80
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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While I am happy with my Seawind opinions differ. Two 9.9 Yamaha long shafts are cheap, easy to fix/get fixed, don't need a shaft or sail drive, and can be lifted up to reduce drag. But some folks think the boat is under powered and gets poor gas mileage compared to inboards. I know folks who think the owners bunk is too high and hard to climb into. The condomarans definitely have more room. If you get a square top it seems to add at least one knot to top speed and probably more in light airs. But you have to disconnect the main halyard to get the sail in the stack pack, and climb on mast steps to reconnect it. I have never been North of the Florida border but some folks think the boat is not suited for cold weather, it is very open.

I spent a while in the dinky going around the harbor taking pix of the sterns of other cats. Many cats look like a brick wall from the back, and this pix of my boat shows just how open it is and how much visibility there is. The link is to my facebook page, always have trouble posting pix.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Bottom line is that there is no perfect boat, just that some boats are better for some things than others.
What kind of hourly consumption/speed are you getting on one engine and both?
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:54   #81
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

If you want to go cruising, start off by boating. Get into the hobby and see where it goes.

We started off with a 19' cuddly cabin. Why? Simply because it was a boat I could talk my wife into.

That little boat got me and yes, her hooked.

Since then we've had several ocean going boats. We've spent over a decade building skills. I've learned to be a good competent captain during that time. My wife has gotten used to the sea. She still does not have the passion for it like I do, but she has learned, and I have learned what she will tolerate, and honestly what she will not.

During that time my cruising plans have matured, and my boats have gotten larger. I know my wife will not cross oceans with me. It's not going to happen. So I've modified my cruising plans to what I think will in the long run be palletable to her. I've also modified my boat plans to suit that as well.

Now, 14 years into the hobby were in our 50's and we have upsized to a large coastal cruiser powerboat. Its big on comfort but is not suited to ocean crossing. But it is suited to the cruising lifestyle that my boating passion has matured into.

So, i would suggest you start off with a boat you can enjoy in Ohio. You can't be more than a couple hours from Lake Erie and probably have lakes you can enjoy. Take your wife out. Take your kids out. Learn and see where this hobby takes you.

Or, you can continue to dream about the big dream boat, and sailing away into the sunset, when you could be having that same dream sitting in a real boat on e lake with your wife and kids instead of your living room.
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:55   #82
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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What kind of hourly consumption/speed are you getting on one engine and both?
Not sure if I have ever run the engines for an hour straight. I have had the boat up to 7.1knots in flat water and very light wind with both motors for short periods. Some long time Seawind owners claim one liter an hour at five knots with one engine, but not everyone agrees with this claim. I would not want to motor this boat for long periods of time. Two 12 gallon tanks and I carry 30 gallons in jerry cans. My experience has been I use more gas in the dingy than in the big boat.

It probably takes me 15 minutes or so to get from my ball to open water and get the main up, less when I am at anchor when cruising. In 15 knots of wind I can maintain 10 knots on a reach in normal conditions. I checked the odometer at the first of the year and the top speed was 13.9 knots and average speed was 5.5 knots.

Motoring in and out of the harbor I am often passed by other sailboats, both multihull and monohull. Once the sails are up it is reversed, except for the Fboats and a very few cats. I bought this boat to cruise in the Keys and Bahamas; maybe Greater and Lesser Antilles if I get ambitious.

In some ways it is a day sailer with a big water tank, nice galley, and composting head. Not really suited for extended open water sailing. But then I am not sure I am suited for open water sailing so it fits me well.
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Old 04-05-2014, 12:02   #83
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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Not sure if I have ever run the engines for an hour straight. I have had the boat up to 7.1knots in flat water and very light wind with both motors for short periods. Some long time Seawind owners claim one liter an hour at five knots with one engine, but not everyone agrees with this claim. I would not want to motor this boat for long periods of time. Two 12 gallon tanks and I carry 30 gallons in jerry cans. My experience has been I use more gas in the dingy than in the big boat.

It probably takes me 15 minutes or so to get from my ball to open water and get the main up, less when I am at anchor when cruising. In 15 knots of wind I can maintain 10 knots on a reach in normal conditions. I checked the odometer at the first of the year and the top speed was 13.9 knots and average speed was 5.5 knots.

Motoring in and out of the harbor I am often passed by other sailboats, both multihull and monohull. Once the sails are up it is reversed, except for the Fboats and a very few cats. I bought this boat to cruise in the Keys and Bahamas; maybe Greater and Lesser Antilles if I get ambitious.

In some ways it is a day sailer with a big water tank, nice galley, and composting head. Not really suited for extended open water sailing. But then I am not sure I am suited for open water sailing so it fits me well.
I had the pleasure of sailing one in Punta Gorda few years back. A 1000xl like yours. I prefer the XL2 but hey! who doesnt?
I also like the idea of lifting the props out of the water.. clean lines and all that, no drag. I like the open deck/cockpit.
It definitely is a warm weather layout...... but I spent less than 3 hours on it.
Did like it though.
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Old 04-05-2014, 12:48   #84
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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For the last time, I can't buy a boat RIGHT NOW. I live in Ohio, and have a kid still in high school. My funds are tied up in real estate that can't be sold for the right price just yet in this down market, and probably won't be at least until the next Presidential election.
We are in the same situation though we might be a bit ahead of you in that we know exactly what boat we want/need and what we both want to do. We built out dream house on acreage that we intended to live on, retire on, and die in but our rural haven is about to be run over by development that is going to create a city a few miles from our house. This is good and bad. We have enough land that the having a small city nearby will not impact our house but do we want to deal with the change and traffic?

Flip side, is that our land value will go up and we can sell land to buy a boat. The big question is do we sell some land or the whole thing including the house? The wife and I disagree on how soon the land values will rise, I think it will happen in five years while she thinks it will take longer.

Irregardless of current and future land prices, the only way we can buy a boat TODAY is to sell EVERYTHING, take losses to do so, uproot the kids, and live on a boat. This would require a job change and a relocation away from family. This would be a huge mistake in so many ways.

Even if we had money to buy a boat, we are two hours from the coast and we do not have the time to even use the boat right now with kid and job responsibilities. To own a boat right now would be a huge waste of money even if we had the money. It makes far more money sense to charter. What we would spend on dockage alone would exceed the cost of chartering.

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I also have a plan to figure out if we are even going to like it before we buy. We've been on boats, but not for extended periods. We know what we like and what we don't like, and we've read enough and talked to enough people to be pretty sure we are going to like this. I know my wife will love Caribbean cruising. I'm also pretty darn sure I will need crew for any passage over 5 days, as she will just fly to meet me.
I have been out for a week at a time with 3-5 people on a 33 foot sail boat but the wife has not. She is a big variable in all of this. When I was out sailing, I really did not want to get off the boat even though we had up to 5 people on board a small boat. I would stay at the helm all day long with only a break for food and the bathroom. I really liked planning a destination, figuring out the course, and getting there. The wife is a variable but she wants to go the same places I want to go and how I want to go, so I am lucky in that she wants to do this as much as I.

We have a plan that has multiple time lines that could happen. Real estate prices are a big variable for us. While we wait for the kids to get through school, real estate and other investments will improve. In the mean time, we have things to do to move along the plan. We are learning and will start taking classes with captains on boats the size we want to buy. This month we are going on a trip to talk to the builder of the boats we like, the designer, as well as visit a couple of the boats and talk to their owners.

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After the death of my uncle this past week, it occurred to me that 'any' boat would be good enough, and that occurs in 3 years at the EARLIEST. That plan is also the most financially difficult, unless my real estate business takes off. But the wife won't get on 'any' boat. As a problem solver, I look for other ways to accomplish this task faster, i.e. buy it in 5 years with a partial loan, work from the boat down in Marathon or something until paid off.
Our plan can be derailed by the economy, my job, health or family issues. There is only so much one can do planning wise. A good friend of mine died of ALS after 5 years with the illness. He was rather lucky in that his death was without the suffering that many people endure who have ALS. Coworkers and coworker's family have dropped dead from heart attacks. Another coworker/friend got cancer, had surgery but he was a dead man walking. Surgery and Chemo only bought him and his family time. He was supposed to have 12-18 months but died after a few months in spite of the procedures he endured. Stuff happens.

While life is short and stuff happens suddenly, we still have responsibilities to kids and family that cannot be ignored. Years ago, my father was able to make long trips to China when China was still very much a closed country. He was able to see parts of China that a westerner had not been too in decades, if ever. He was set to go back to China on another trip but he had to cancel, even though he really wanted to go, because his mother was not in good health and he needed to be nearby. The Chinese impacted by his cancellation fully understood my father's decision and family responsibilities. My family is more important that going cruising. Cruising is something we really want to do but it does not hold a candle to what is important, which is family.

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Again, I love the passion this forum shows, and the willingness to share. And I imagine you get your fair share of dreamers on here that don't actually do anything. But I'm a planner, and a do-er. Proven that all my life. I will have a boat in 3, 5 or 10 years, barring any health issues. And that's the part of the plan that got me worried and writing to others, to see if anyone a) bought a nice boat but then had to leave it because of medical or b) planned on it but couldn't because of medical or c) did it anyways, ran out of money and now regret it. I have not heard a single regret yet, and others are in my same situation.
I designed the house we live in which is something I wanted to do since at least as early as 9th grade, but likely, earlier. It took me a few decades to do this. I also wanted to have land to surround the house. It took me 8 years of looking, buying, and selling land to get the place we have today. We also made some very hard decisions and took some large risks. It took us five years after buying our land to find a builder, finalize the design, build the house and move in. I have done long term planning with several parallel careers that I have. Long term planing is what I do, have done and will continue to do. Successful long term planning and execution of complicated plans is why we have what we have today. The boat is no different, it is just one more thang.

The demographic of most of the people who are buying the boats which we are interested, are people who are retired and have the time and money to travel the world. They seem to get the boat in their mid to late 50's, at the earliest, travel the world for about 10 years give or take, and then move back to land as they age out. Frankly, the realization that we are planning what is likely to be our last big adventure before aging out is not so pleasant. But that too is life.

I have read of people who have built a boat and then one spouse dies, usually the husband who wanted the boat. I have read of one widow that kept the boat and lived on board for years before selling but I think most widow's sell. Other's try to build a boat and run of out of time and/or health and have to sell the uncompleted boat. This is just a risk one has to take. There was a marathon in Raleigh a few weeks ago. Two 30-35 year old men dropped dead in the race. Stuff happens.

I suspect that most people who have boat a boat,run into difficulty, and loose the boat one way or another, are no longer on CF.

We do have a short path to The Boat, but for it to happen, certain unpleasant events would have to occur and we would rather not take the sort path. This short path would not be the best path for the kids. However, the short path plan is exists and Life might cause us to take that path. We set up plans, discuss what ifs, and make decisions on which path to take based on events. Some events are within our control and others are not...

Back to the Subject Question, "Dream Boat or go ASAP?" For us to go ASAP, is just not realistically possible unless either bad things happen or we get really lucky, meaning we win the lottery.

Later,
Dan
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Old 04-05-2014, 13:49   #85
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

I have quite a few friends right now in different stages of their 5 year plans. For most of them it gives them 5 more years to come up with different reasons why they can't. It's money, it's boat it's wife it's grandkids it's savings it's health on and on and on. In fact most of them are on at least their second 5 year plan most will will never go. You say you would be happy with that Hans Christian but she would not. Simple tell her to make more money, sale more homes get a 2nd job but by year 3 if the boat fund isn't X,, then we buy what we can afforded and go. The wife hold out is always the number one reason guys end up giving up on their dreams. Even if you have given up 30 years doing the house kids thing,,her dream,, they many times are to selfish to go with you unless you can figure out some way to buy a million dollar Gunboat 66 cat with a full wait staff to wait on her 24/7,,unlimited hot showers non stop ac then and only then you can live your dream.
You have answered the question you could be happy on much less boat. That makes this simple find out now if you have a partner or a anchor dragging your dream down. If you don't have a partner then best you know now.
Buy the way lots and lots of lady's would enjoy going on that Hans Christian!!
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Old 04-05-2014, 13:59   #86
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

I want to just try something.

Here is the simplest, and in my view a very safe boat to get and use whilst you are saving up for your dream Cat.

Roughly between $6-10K. YOu can make all your mistakes on it and have some of the best fun ever.

If this video does not appeal, then perhaps you need to wonder if you want to go sailing or is it the lifestyle of absolute luxury that appeals. ITs a lot of work to be a cruiser. If your wife is not onboard with the idea, you will be paying crew.

For a larger Cat, you will probably NEED crew. Thats another 100K + a year. Asking her to stand 4 hour watches through the night will brittle a marriage if she didnt sign up for discomfort. I speak from experience.

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Old 04-05-2014, 14:09   #87
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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Thoughts on cruising/liveaboard As Soon As Possible (i.e. all kids off to college), or waiting a few more years to accumulate more cash for the 'dream boat'?

I have a 5 year plan (age 54) that involves a cheaper cat, and a 10 year plan (age 57) that involves a dream cat (although probably still used). There could also be a 3 year plan that says 'chuck it all, buy what we can, and get going.' I'm not sure the wife would ever go for the 3 year plan.

There is also a potential dream boat 5 year plan that involves us running our business from the boat.

Any thoughts or stories to tell here? Anybody go too soon and ruin the experience, anybody wait to long and couldn't go due to health issues?

All the best,
FollowingC's
Talk to someone who is an actuarial. Get them to run the numbers for you. That's hard data that will open your eyes to why retirement funds work...and not in your favor. May make you choose the chuck it all and go now plan.

Any actuarial types here?
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Old 04-05-2014, 14:45   #88
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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Someone posted this on another thread and it says it so eloquently:

THE BOAT THAT NEVER SAILED
by Alban Wall
Man, that is beautiful. I'm going to print that out and hang it on the wall. In fact, everyone with a plan ought to do it.

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Old 04-05-2014, 15:46   #89
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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SNIP

Asking her to stand 4 hour watches through the night will brittle a marriage if she didnt sign up for discomfort. I speak from experience.

This is what I am not understanding. I can sail a moderately fast cat all over the Florida Keys and Bahamas and always be anchored before the sun sets in a reasonably protected harbor. Some days I only sail a couple of hours to find a new white sand beach by a safe anchorage where it is easy to dive for lobster or catch a mutton snapper.

Some times I will look at monohulls or power boats in the anchorage that are bobbing around and am over joyed that I am on a cat and the cup of coffee that I set on the salon table at breakfast is still where I left it after a day of sailing.

True I have to jump in the ocean from the sugar scoop, climb back on the sugar scoop, grab the Dawn, lather up, jump back in the ocean and rinse off, and then back on the sugar scoop to rinse off with fresh water from a pump up two gallon garden tank. But I have plenty of solar and an Engel and a Frigaboat with lots of cold drinks, milk, yogurt, popcicels , and sometimes steak.

If I wanted I could take some night trips and head to the South American coast but quite frankly the Bahamas and Keys have lots more places I have never been, SeaTow will come and get me, lots of places my cell phone works, and everyone speaks English.

Not to say I would not enjoy the South Pacific, but no matter what your age you only have so much time left. I like to pick the low hanging fruit before I start climbing trees and risk falling.

YMMV
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Old 04-05-2014, 16:06   #90
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Re: Dream Boat or go ASAP?

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This is what I am not understanding. I can sail a moderately fast cat all over the Florida Keys and Bahamas and always be anchored before the sun sets in a reasonably protected harbor. Some days I only sail a couple of hours to find a new white sand beach by a safe anchorage where it is easy to dive for lobster or catch a mutton snapper.

Some times I will look at monohulls or power boats in the anchorage that are bobbing around and am over joyed that I am on a cat and the cup of coffee that I set on the salon table at breakfast is still where I left it after a day of sailing.

True I have to jump in the ocean from the sugar scoop, climb back on the sugar scoop, grab the Dawn, lather up, jump back in the ocean and rinse off, and then back on the sugar scoop to rinse off with fresh water from a pump up two gallon garden tank. But I have plenty of solar and an Engel and a Frigaboat with lots of cold drinks, milk, yogurt, popcicels , and sometimes steak.

If I wanted I could take some night trips and head to the South American coast but quite frankly the Bahamas and Keys have lots more places I have never been, SeaTow will come and get me, lots of places my cell phone works, and everyone speaks English.

Not to say I would not enjoy the South Pacific, but no matter what your age you only have so much time left. I like to pick the low hanging fruit before I start climbing trees and risk falling.

YMMV
lemme see.
35 foot Cat
Everything in reach. Single handed sailing on this side of doable.

VS

Say a 52 foot Cat. Needs TWO competent crew to start with. Berthing, cleaning, Engine care, Sail handling, cooking, Anchoring, Watch etc etc etc.....
This Cat may turn into being a Corporate gig....... I dont see The Mrs handling it all and the sailing..... No sir. Its going to be a 52 X 26 foot oblong.. And all that entails.

I can sail a 52 footer alone, But I cant handle one when the turds start flying.


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