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Old 26-02-2013, 14:16   #31
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

The wallas system is great , but has one disadvantage compared to the eber/webasto systems. They are made in finland and their original market were sailboats with outboard engines. They use a lot less current than the others but you need to keep the ductwork as short and straight as possible. The fan is WEAK!

They are said to be old fasioned too, same design as 15 years ago.
I heard that some of the designers started their own brand recently , cause wallas didnt endorse developement...

.manitu
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:24   #32
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

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Originally Posted by manitu View Post
The wallas system is great , but has one disadvantage compared to the eber/webasto systems. They are made in finland and their original market were sailboats with outboard engines. They use a lot less current than the others but you need to keep the ductwork as short and straight as possible. The fan is WEAK!

They are said to be old fasioned too, same design as 15 years ago.
I heard that some of the designers started their own brand recently , cause wallas didnt endorse developement...

.manitu
Interesting , I wonder what the brand name is. I understand that duct work has to be short. I guess the only way to get away from that would be to mount a small unit in forward part of the boat , that just complicates things as well . I for one would not like to have a exhaust in the forward part of the hull .

Regards
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Old 26-02-2013, 17:47   #33
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

Has to be this one , I think..
http://www.safire.fi/pdf/SF-Venelam_eng.pdf
Dont think theyre sold outside scandinavia yet.

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Old 26-02-2013, 19:14   #34
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

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Interesting , I wonder what the brand name is. I understand that duct work has to be short. I guess the only way to get away from that would be to mount a small unit in forward part of the boat , that just complicates things as well . I for one would not like to have a exhaust in the forward part of the hull .

Regards
Interesting. It's OK to install natural exhaust heaters typically at the front main bulkhead and have the exhaust come out on deck there, but many will tell you the only place you can safely exhaust a forced air heater is out the transom.
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:05   #35
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

My experience with the Wallas heater has been superb. We live in remote BC and use our Corbin39 all year. It is located in the engine room under the cockpit. It's ducting runs directly into the pilot house, galley, head and V Berth. The cold air return runs on the starboard side and all but one heating duct is on the port side, with the head ducting running off the line that goes onto the VBerth. The pilot house kicks out the most heat with the fan being strongest there , and less at it travels forward. All the ducts have a lever that allows you to angle the heat as well as any volume adjustment you want. By simply closing my pilot house vent I greatly increase the flow into all other areas. The head , could have gone with out a heater as it becomes a sauna if the door is left closed, I would recommend two ducts in the main salon. Lst weekend we were out in night time tempatures of 30F and the boat was a comfortable 65 when set at the mid point for heat. The model i have also has a built in fan booster which I don't use often , but to quickly warm the boat it comes in handy.
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:15   #36
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

The forced air or hydronic heaters can give you home like temperature/comfort control. The issue with a cruising sailboat is their electrical consumption. Know of one sailboat that installed a generator just to keep the heater going under sail and at anchor.

The bulkhead diesel heaters supply lots of heat but circulation of that heat can be an issue. They require minimal electrical input so are loved by those who don't have or want to generate a lot of electrons. You also have to be careful to prevent backdrafts. A separate outside vented balancing air supply is highly reccomended.

Don't know whether the forced air heaters will work under steep heel angles. The wall mount heaters don't like high angles of heel. Hear you may be able to modify the burners to make them more comfortable with higher heeling angles.
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Old 03-03-2013, 14:34   #37
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

There is a diesel heater made in Goteborg that is similar to the Danish Refleks and the Canadian Dickinson. It is available with water heating coils and, crucially, a thermostatically controlled "carburetor" which enables the system to maintain a constant temperature. I spent the winter of 1998-9 in Goteborg, at Lille Bommen, and knew one boat that had the system installed - it worked great. I also met the owner of the company. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of the company, and of course it may no longer be in business. Perhaps Manitu can help?

Greg
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Old 03-03-2013, 15:03   #38
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

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Originally Posted by cortezsailor View Post
My experience with the Wallas heater has been superb. We live in remote BC and use our Corbin39 all year. It is located in the engine room under the cockpit. It's ducting runs directly into the pilot house, galley, head and V Berth. The cold air return runs on the starboard side and all but one heating duct is on the port side, with the head ducting running off the line that goes onto the VBerth. The pilot house kicks out the most heat with the fan being strongest there , and less at it travels forward. All the ducts have a lever that allows you to angle the heat as well as any volume adjustment you want. By simply closing my pilot house vent I greatly increase the flow into all other areas. The head , could have gone with out a heater as it becomes a sauna if the door is left closed, I would recommend two ducts in the main salon. Lst weekend we were out in night time tempatures of 30F and the boat was a comfortable 65 when set at the mid point for heat. The model i have also has a built in fan booster which I don't use often , but to quickly warm the boat it comes in handy.

The big issue with me was the noise of my D9 hydronic system . Do you find the Wallas quiet ?

Plus the hydronic system doesn't bring in fresh air so I found the humidity would rise in the boat , not a good thing .

Regards
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Old 03-03-2013, 18:13   #39
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

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There is a diesel heater made in Goteborg that is similar to the Danish Refleks and the Canadian Dickinson. It is available with water heating coils and, crucially, a thermostatically controlled "carburetor" which enables the system to maintain a constant temperature. I spent the winter of 1998-9 in Goteborg, at Lille Bommen, and knew one boat that had the system installed - it worked great. I also met the owner of the company. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of the company, and of course it may no longer be in business. Perhaps Manitu can help?

Greg
I guess it has to be this one:
Kaminer | Ingenjörsfirman Glembring AB
The smallest one is 1,8KW and only 7" diameter!!

.manitu
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Old 03-03-2013, 18:53   #40
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

Manitu-

Yes, that appears to be the one.

Greg
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Old 03-03-2013, 19:49   #41
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

Man, thanks for pointing me to this glembring stove.

I think this might be the single heat source for my budget pocket cruiser.

They can be left on unattended when used with a balanced exhaust or the external fresh air intake. It copes with heel angles, as long as the regulator is placed straight in front of, or behind the burner.

The termostat.. Oh boy.
A models: Thermostat mounted on the regulator. This is a ambient air sensor wich due to its placement on the regulator could be a problem in a boat with little or no air circulation. (hot around the stove , cold everywhere else)

B models: All central heating models. Placed on the water coil exit. control water temperature.

C models:Like "A" , but with a 2 metre tube ensor.

It seems like the "swedish way" is to use a "B" model and a serial loop of radiators, with a thermostat controlled circulation pump. circulation stops , water in the coil heats up , stove turns down.

This has a much bigger hot water coil than other stoves I've looked at.


Oh , did I mention that it's cheap?



.manitu
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Old 03-03-2013, 20:03   #42
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

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Man, thanks for pointing me to this glembring
.manitu
I couldn't get the page to translate to English. And unless I learn to read Finnish, which isn't very likely, I'm SOL.
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Old 03-03-2013, 20:08   #43
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

I'm getting this one , with a water coil, methinks..

Here , in english!!
Glembring 4kw
http://www.elyboatchandlers.com/glem...w-diesel-stove
http://www.elyboatchandlers.com/imag...20brochure.pdf


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Old 03-03-2013, 20:18   #44
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

I'll read more about it but I'm really close to getting a Refleck MV 66. It's a fully insulated model for building into an enclosure. I see that Glembring has a model like that too.

Thanks for the link, I'll do some reading......again.
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Old 03-03-2013, 20:39   #45
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Re: Diesel heaters: Wallas vs Dickinson

Looks like it's sold in the US under another brand name, "Nordic Stove"

Alaska NordicStove oil heater stove sales

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