Dating, Relationships livingaboard

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by scgilligan

If I did, I would not be sitting at this !@#$%$ Desk.

Awwww... Shame..!!
But you could just have easily have been sat in Jolly Harbour.. or Palapa.. or Greece come to that..

[alctel]

In my experience, it makes dating a lot easier as it's a great filter between people I would like to hang out with more (they are super interested and want to see the boat and ask questions) and people I would not like to (the opposite). Plus, it automatically makes you a bit more interesting than the average chap . And who doesn't want to spend the night on a boat? Being a Brit in north america probably helps as well though.

Long term is probably harder, though there are a lot of awesome people who love the water/sailing and would be happy to embrace the lifestyle. I want to circumnavigate solo though in a year or two, so I keep the barriers up!

Life gets in the way of ALL relationships, living on a boat isn't a dealbreaker in any way.

[Lepke]

"There is some very ugly talk about women here."

Not ugly at all. And nobody said all women. The thread by a man was about relationships and living aboard. To discuss that, the number one cause in losing the dream or never achieving the dream also deserves to be included.

Most women can't take frank talk. To them the emotion is fact. Hollywood and the romance novel show life as it is. You don't want someone to hold up a mirror and see your inner self. The majority don't want old men passing on their knowledge to younger, pliable, dupe-able men. When we old farts gather on the dock, often we talk of women and our lives. We see common experiences and the results we have to live with. Women talk about men, and twisting them to their will. The joys of alimony and child support. We talk about how to avoid it. Our reasons for passing on our knowledge is to help younger men achieve the dream, avoid the pitfalls, and live a better life than we did.

The next observation will be I and men like me hate women. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just don't like what the majority have in common.
Supporting a woman is like being a draft animal. You plod off to a job you may hate, just for the check. You're fed just enough to know you're hungry. Just a little pleasantness so you hope for more.

[scgilligan]

My take on the situation would be this: If I were newly single and living on a boat I would spend my time enjoying the boat and sailing as much as possible..Not even looking for a relationship. If the perfect girl comes along while I am sailing, then it is meant to be..she would of course like the lifestyle or how would I have bumped into her on the water otherwise? If she does not happen by while I am sailing, I may start looking/pursuing a date in about 4 years when I start thinking there is more to life than beer and boats..I am in my 40s now and if I were single I doubt I'd care too much about not being single. Do what makes you happy and the rest will come.

[vjm]

Originally Posted by Lepke

"There is some very ugly talk about women here."

Not ugly at all. And nobody said all women. The thread by a man was about relationships and living aboard. To discuss that, the number one cause in losing the dream or never achieving the dream also deserves to be included.

Most women can't take frank talk. To them the emotion is fact. Hollywood and the romance novel show life as it is. You don't want someone to hold up a mirror and see your inner self. The majority don't want old men passing on their knowledge to younger, pliable, dupe-able men. When we old farts gather on the dock, often we talk of women and our lives. We see common experiences and the results we have to live with. Women talk about men, and twisting them to their will. The joys of alimony and child support. We talk about how to avoid it. Our reasons for passing on our knowledge is to help younger men achieve the dream, avoid the pitfalls, and live a better life than we did.

The next observation will be I and men like me hate women. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just don't like what the majority have in common.
Supporting a woman is like being a draft animal. You plod off to a job you may hate, just for the check. You're fed just enough to know you're hungry. Just a little pleasantness so you hope for more.

Oh yeah, that's not ugly at all. I assure you, women do not gather together to talk about men and "twisting them to their will." That's laughable. We have much better things to talk about than men.

If men are not achieving their dreams, that's on them. Period. My boyfriend could care less about sailing. Why would I allow that to crush my dreams? It would be ridiculous for me to stop doing what I love and blame that on him, let alone warning others about the dangers of relationships based on my own failings. I am responsible for pursuing my dreams, as every person is. Blaming someone else because you give up strikes me as pretty juvenile.

[amytom]

Originally Posted by poiu

I feel for you. You haven't worked it out yet. I know it's not easy, but here's a heads up from someone ahead in the line of life.

You want a girl, because you have hormones and instincts that ensure you reproduce. It masquerades as a desire for companionship. That's all there is to it, the male desires are very simple and secondary compared to those of the female. You are free now and don't have to act if you don't want the ultimate consequences:

At your age 90% of girls also are hormone driven and want basically one thing, usually it is disguised, often they don't know it, sometimes they think they want something else, sometimes they insist vehemently or angrily that they want something else, but they have no control. Nature is in control and the screaming ovaries are pulling all the strings at a subconscious level. They want a handsome boy to provide good stock who is well educated, hard working and ambitious, so will also be a good provider. She has an image of a suburban street with a nice house and her two toddlers playing happily. You on the other hand are a typical male 'looking for a companion', a lamb to the slaughter. If you meet her subconscious criterion you will indeed be duly slaughtered, taken up the aisle and locked into a life of slavery. You have no say in the matter, your thoughts will be confused by her beauty and charms and you will be hypnotized, maybe for a few years until you ultimately submit.

Then a number of years later for a very large number of victims, certainly over half, which therefore is more than likely to include you, she will realise she can have everything she wants without you. You will have provided the nice house, car and life and she has them now along with the kids, which is really the focus of her life and quite rightly so much more fulfilling than you are. She also realizes that due to an obligation to pay financial support she can have all this and be fine financially, so you will be disposed of. You have served your purpose and are not needed anymore. She may keep you for the kids sake, but in reality you are disposed of.

So, you might be lucky and enjoy the life of slavery. Many, or even most do and really it's got a lot going for it. You might be lucky and be one of the substantial minority to have a blissful life. I hope so.

Just don't be under the illusion that the game at your age is about something else. Your wanting a companion is fine, but your low income life on-board is totally incompatible with the desires of an early 30's female. You will find a suitable short term girl, but a long term keeper - the odds are single figure percentages, if that.

So, my advice is be part of the game and play it to win. Pick the girl, signing up in advance to her subconscious end-game and make sure the choice is yours, not just hers and that you see through the confusing hormone driven blindness to pick a really good one for you and be one of the lucky minority. The boat will become a much smaller part of your life in all probability, if it is there at all.

Wow! Did you have a recent breakup?


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[Celestialsailor]

I wanted to add to my previous post, when I said "At least in my society, women are seeking a certain form of security. They have been taught (and unfairly) that they have to get a partner to take care of them".
I would like to add and hope the op hears this...is...it is the same for males. That is and I'm feeling this from the op, that some males tend to "need" a relationship, especially soon after a breakup. A void is created in your life. I believe the base of that void is how we, as males, are brought up. Told that our worth as a man is to have mommy on our arm. Both my major break ups I went through the usual stages of grief...1)Shock and denial, 2)Anger, 3)Depression, 4)Bargaining, 5)Acceptance.
Some men, including myself, tend to use a relationship like a drug after a break-up. It dulls the pain but prolongs the recovery. My last major one, took me an honest 5 years to completely get over it. Although most of the intense pain went away the first year. I stayed unencumbered after that demise for 15 years. I accomplished a lot.
I want to state again that this has been a good thread with lots of healthy opinions, even if some are brunt.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by amytom

Wow! Did you have a recent breakup?


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No...but the last one may have left a few scars...

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Lepke

....................
.........................
..... When we old farts gather on the dock, often we talk of women and our lives. We see common experiences and the results we have to live with. Women talk about men, and twisting them to their will. The joys of alimony and child support. We talk about how to avoid it. Our reasons for passing on our knowledge is to help younger men achieve the dream, avoid the pitfalls, and live a better life than we did. ..........................

vjm said that women don't gather together to talk about men. She might be right though I had guessed that they share more about personal relationships than groups of men.

As a man among the "old farts" who gather on the dock talking, I'm amazed that Lepke says they often talk of women. Men discussing their personal relationships with other men is pretty much unheard of in my world. Maybe some brief quip or slur, but never a sincere discussion. Men on the docks will talk about sports, their boats, their cars, their projects, their jobs, ... maybe something as personal as their finances or their health, but not a sincere discussion about a personal relationship.

I'm not counting some bravado that some associate with making derogatory comments about women as a discussion of relationships. At my current location there are about 70 boats at the docks with half of them frequently occupied. Most are couples along with a smaller number of single males and maybe no more than three single females. I believe there are four families with young children.

[JPA Cate]

MV Maverick,

A 50 footer is a large boat for an inexperienced crew to tack. Maybe you'd get farther if you suggested she could have the privelege of tacking after she watched you do it a few times. A lot of people--not just women--would feel diffident about just taking over your "job" on the boat, especially without instruction about when, exactly to release the jib sheet.

This whole thread, in a way, is about communication, and compromise. We have some feminists, and some men who still retain anger from relationships that did not work out for them. It is why in my first post in this thread that I mentioned that She31 will have to heal from his anger. As I see it, focusing on himself and his boat will be an important part of his healing, plus having the virtue of following his own dreams. Then, well, women, like men, are like trolleys, there'll be another one along soon. And, one other thing, whoever you are, you decide if you want to be a "keeper." "Keepers" tend to pair up.

If you choose well, you can have a story like A64Pilot's.

Ann

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

The "romantic" part of marital relationship is quite recent phenomena, 150-200 years or so. Prior to that all the way back to the ancient times marriage and love were not connected. In fact for the most of human recorded history love was a subbranch of "madness". Practically all pre-industrial revolution marriages were of arranged or "economic interest" type where the sides were not expected to be in love, let alone madly in love. Perhaps respect, adoration, resignation, etc. but not love.

Today with excessive emphasis on love we are at a loss what to do with a marriage when that feeling of "love" subsided or becomes non-existent because for the past 150-200 years we have not been taught to enter into and to continue a relationship which has lost (or never had to begin with) its' "love" component. Thus, 50%+ (if not higher) of all marriages end in divorce, a true testament to the unworkability of that official legal model in modern times. Not saying that the old model of arranged marriages as better or would be workable today but that the current model is not working is quite evident on it face.

Each time my g/f of 10+ years brings up, however subtly, the subject of marriage I keep reminding her of a semi-facetious pact we jokingly made years ago. Back then we have agreed that if we find among all the people we know at least one (!) couple who is happily married for some lengthy time AND both of us would want to emulate their marriage and life together then we would discuss a marriage for ourselves. Forward 10 years we have yet to find such a couple. Although, according to some CF members, they do exist, we just haven't met one personally. ))

PS Of course there are couples which I consider model but not my g/f and vice versa.

To me there seems to be a lot of truth in the above. I often say this to people" have the courage to look at all the married couples you know and honestly tell me if you think they are happy" .
I recently went to my parent's 50th wedding anniversary, at the end of the night dad gave a little speech which he finished by saying " and we are still very much in love"......now this is lovely, accept for the fact it's a lie! I've seen their relationship for along time and it certainly hasnt represented "we're in love". People say what they think they should, or what they are told they should. People don't get married to be happy , they get married to be married!
Before I get labelled , angry single and alone on a boat, I'm not. My girlfriend is a unique and wonderful person, and here lies the problem. Its easy to blame a disfunctional or non satisfactory relationship on your partner when she/hes a nut job but not so easy when you have two decent people doing their best.
Look at the stats, they suggest there is a problem with the model! An old institution in a very modern world that fails in ridiculous numbers....hands up whos been divorced?
In regards to the older blokes being forward and to the point with their views, good on them, us younger guy's need their thought out opinions even if they are not delivered the way some would like then to be. Personally I find the 30-40 (age) woman to be very blunt in opinion, everything from spirituality, vegetarianism to left wing politics, but that's ok.
More discussions like this are needed, its time that the way we viewed relationships and marriage evolved. In regards to guys not talking about women at the dock etc, what's this? Isn't this what we are doing? I said this in a previous post but its worth repeating " people stay together for all sorts of reasons the least being happiness and love" ....but being truthful is hard as its way to challenging on to many levels.

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[daletournier]

It amuses me that we believe we evolved from apes, "we are apes" just a different sort...lol.
Is our behaviour so removed from that of animals?
3-5% of mammals have monogamous relationships, that means they mate for life. Most of that 3-5% still screw around!
Are we only as loyal as our options? Is nature bigger than us, the forces that bring us together do they drive us apart?

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[Seaworthy Lass]

Wow, I have never encountered attitudes such as expressed by some of the posters in this thread!

Certainly it is possible that all sorts of primal instincts can subliminally affect behaviour, but do you really believe that they govern all our actions?

In the same vein, I bet that it could also be postulated that the ONLY reason men are attracted to young, good looking, buxom women is to increase the odds that their seed will be planted in fertile ground, and an attractive infant produced who will be well fed .

SWL

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

. . . In the same vein, I bet that it could also be postulated that the ONLY reason men are attracted to young, good looking, buxom women is to increase the odds that their seed will be planted in fertile ground, and an attractive infant produced who will be well fed .
. . .

Ummm, so, what's the question?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Wow, I have never encountered attitudes such as expressed by some of the posters in this thread!

Certainly it is possible that all sorts of primal instincts can subliminally affect behaviour, but do you really believe that they govern all our actions?

In the same vein, I bet that it could also be postulated that the ONLY reason men are attracted to young, good looking, buxom women is to increase the odds that their seed will be planted in fertile ground, and an attractive infant produced who will be well fed .

SWL

nah! I think it is more simple than that IE:

Why do men cheat?

.....There is Pussy........and Then there is Strange Pussy