Critique My Liveaboard Idea . . .

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

but maybe ignoring how much the first boat ownership (and working on / looking in dark places) saved you when buying the bigger boat?......with scale the potential bills increase...........my bet is you were a lot fussier on the 2nd than you would otherwise have been .

or not

I'm afraid the answer is - NOT! What I learned is that I should have gotten the bigger boat to start with, but was afraid to do so because I had little experience. I definitely didn't get $12,000 worth of experience on the first boat.

Maybe the biggest lesson from ther first boat is: get the newest boat you can that has had the fewest past owners in order to reduce having to refix past fixes!

But I'm probably not normal (well that's probably a given) in that my first boat was 39'. And when I got it I had 4 months of weekend sailing experience only (and the smallest sailboat I've ever been on is 33').

[Bash]

I love the boat, but would find it a bit small for living aboard. Regardless, make sure you'll be able to find a marina that will let you live on a boat that small. It's not unusual for marinas to have a minimum size for liveaboards. The last marina I lived in that had such a rule would not allow liveaboards on boats under 35'.

[michaelmrc]

in vancouver its very difficult to find liveaboard moorage very long waiting lists from what ive been told.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by Bash

I love the boat, but would find it a bit small for living aboard. Regardless, make sure you'll be able to find a marina that will let you live on a boat that small. It's not unusual for marinas to have a minimum size for liveaboards. The last marina I lived in that had such a rule would not allow liveaboards on boats under 35'.

Might be a West Coast thing. I have seen marinas who charged a minimum footage, but not minimum live aboard...

...anyone seen this on the east coast?

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I'm going to suggest going in the direction of the larger boat. If you really feel the larger boat in the end is the right direction for you then getting the smaller boat will cost you more in the long run when you decide to move up.

The cost to me to have had my smaller boat the past 2 years before recently getting the boat I now have, that I wanted to start with, was $12,000 of lost money between what I paid and sold the first boat for.

So if that 27 footer is really what you want , get it. But if you are looking at it as a start and stepping stone to something larger, skip it!

This makes a lot of sense to me. I started with a larger boat but, like most of us I'm guessing, I sometimes think about other boats. It has occured to me that once your into a boat and spending money that when you sell you're going to lose much, if not all, the sweat equity and investment to upgrade. Unless money isn't an issue then buy a boat planning on keeping for a long time.

Maybe this isn't true if you don't plan on putting anything into the boat, and if nothing happens to force you to and the market improves and so on?

[u4ea32]

Even a 36 foot boat is a very small place to live. A Cat 27 has pretty much everything a 36 footer has, just more compact (probably too compact for two).

Things you should not live without (although some I know happily do so):
1) Standing headroom!
2) The ability to easily cook whatever you like to eat. Gotta store that food (refer, pantry, vegetable hammock, ...), store the pots/pans/plates/etc., and clean up afterwards (double sink, place for drying rack). Don't overlook this, most do.
3) Enclosed head that is nothing but a head. No toilet under the bed (yuck!).
4) Limited shower: gotta be able to clean yourself up. Sure, you'lll usually use shoreside showers. But you are not buying a boat just to live in a very expensive, cramped, cold, damp place, right? Ya wanna see the world, right? Right!
5) A place for everything, and everything in its place. If you can't put things away, you can't leave the dock, and you are just living in an expensive, cramped, damp, cold place. Yuck!
6) Dorade boxes for ventilation (fresh air no matter what the weather and seas are like outside).

Gear you just gotta have, and its gotta be in good condition and easy to service:

* Standing rigging (shrouds, mast, boom, gooseneck, ...)

* Running rigging (sheets, lines, blocks, winches, ...)

* Engine and other systems (generator, pumps, electrical panels and wiring, ...) that are very, very easy to service. Otherwise the previous owner didn't and you will get to do all their maintenance too!

* Sails that are much less than 8 years old maximum. Sails don't last long. Plan on buying new ones. Yes, they are expensive. Its a boat!

Again, let me emphasize this:

You NEED proper storage for everything you will put on the boat. That is a lot of stuff! If its just crammed into some dark, damp, musty place (almost anywhere on a boat), all your stuff becomes damp, moldy, stinky, and rotten. If its left in the cockpit or on deck, you will look like (you will actually become) a homeless hobo bum. Yuck!

Clothes. Toiletries. Kitchen equipment. Food and Drinks. Cleaning supplies. Dinghy. Safety equipment. Sails. Lines and other running rigging. Covers (dodger, bimini, boom tent, sail covers, ...). Navigation and communication equipment. Its a lot of stuff that needs to be carefully stored so its dry, accessible, and safe underway.

I've found the only good place to put clothes is in a hanging locker with lots of space around the clothes for ventilation. Drawers, shelves, and under berths are bad, unless you are really going for that moldy smell.

[doug86]

IF you are still new at sailing and boating, then I think the C27 is a fine idea (although that one you mentioned seems like a high price. I know boats in PNW are generally higher). You need a "practice and learn as I go" boat, and that C27 will be a good teacher. One of Catalina's better sailors, and enough room to live on. You will learn what is important to you after about a year of sailing and living aboard. You will see the drawbacks and the positives of living aboard, and if you decide it's not for you, you will have a boat that you can sell.

Heed the advice about finding a place to liveaboard before buying the boat. Live aboards are not always welcome, or, are charged very high fees for the privilege in some markets. Know where you will keep a boat before you buy one.

go for it!

[Nomdaica]

Some more thoughts on my dream....

My dream to liveaboard is actually multifaceted. Firstly, I love sailing...and want to be living that dream. (not in 20 years)

Secondly, I grew up quite poor, and put myself through school twice getting myself to where I am today. I am just about out of debt....and to be honest...even with my good job, I cant even think about owing the bank (or anyone) anything. Even If I can afford it, I refuse to pay a half million for a garbage condo in Surrey. (suburbs of Vancouver) Just by principle.

Having worked with the Red Cross in disaster management...and lots in Asia, the idea of living in a small space does not scare me much.

I currently pay about 10,000 per year in rent. What I am thinking is sure that catalina is not the ideal boat.... I could own one outright in one year. Living rent free would allow me to save faster for the bigger 36" proper livaboard.

People always keep pushing their dreams for "just another year" Even if I put 500.00 per month into that boat...im still saving 500 per month that goes in the garbage from rent.

Also, this girl inspired me as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaH_UUH0Ek

Doubtful she is single

Perhaps this sheds some more light on my dream! This has been a great post....thanks EVERYONE for your thoughts.

Joel.

[michaelmrc]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

Even a 36 foot boat is a very small place to live. A Cat 27 has pretty much everything a 36 footer has, just more compact (probably too compact for two).

Things you should not live without (although some I know happily do so):
1) Standing headroom!
2) The ability to easily cook whatever you like to eat. Gotta store that food (refer, pantry, vegetable hammock, ...), store the pots/pans/plates/etc., and clean up afterwards (double sink, place for drying rack). Don't overlook this, most do.
3) Enclosed head that is nothing but a head. No toilet under the bed (yuck!).
4) Limited shower: gotta be able to clean yourself up. Sure, you'lll usually use shoreside showers. But you are not buying a boat just to live in a very expensive, cramped, cold, damp place, right? Ya wanna see the world, right? Right!
5) A place for everything, and everything in its place. If you can't put things away, you can't leave the dock, and you are just living in an expensive, cramped, damp, cold place. Yuck!
6) Dorade boxes for ventilation (fresh air no matter what the weather and seas are like outside).

Gear you just gotta have, and its gotta be in good condition and easy to service:

* Standing rigging (shrouds, mast, boom, gooseneck, ...)

* Running rigging (sheets, lines, blocks, winches, ...)

* Engine and other systems (generator, pumps, electrical panels and wiring, ...) that are very, very easy to service. Otherwise the previous owner didn't and you will get to do all their maintenance too!

* Sails that are much less than 8 years old maximum. Sails don't last long. Plan on buying new ones. Yes, they are expensive. Its a boat!

Again, let me emphasize this:

You NEED proper storage for everything you will put on the boat. That is a lot of stuff! If its just crammed into some dark, damp, musty place (almost anywhere on a boat), all your stuff becomes damp, moldy, stinky, and rotten. If its left in the cockpit or on deck, you will look like (you will actually become) a homeless hobo bum. Yuck!

Clothes. Toiletries. Kitchen equipment. Food and Drinks. Cleaning supplies. Dinghy. Safety equipment. Sails. Lines and other running rigging. Covers (dodger, bimini, boom tent, sail covers, ...). Navigation and communication equipment. Its a lot of stuff that needs to be carefully stored so its dry, accessible, and safe underway.

I've found the only good place to put clothes is in a hanging locker with lots of space around the clothes for ventilation. Drawers, shelves, and under berths are bad, unless you are really going for that moldy smell.

on my cat 27 i have all of the above with the exception of the shower. summer months i usually use a solar shower in the cockpit winter months i shower at the marina. keeps the condensation out of the boat, i have stove oven a waeco ac/dc cooler/freezer a seperate head with vanity and plenty of storage space.shore power heaters dickinson propane heater for on the hook, hanging locker for my good clothes vacuum bagged clothes for under the berths. it all depends on if you are the type of person that can live a minimalist lifestyle. my neighbor has lived on his 24 ft sailboat for the last 2 years and compared to my boat its very tiny.
ive just started working on my blog which will have several photos of upgrades ive done and projects im working on.
My Awakening

[Charlie]

I think I would go for a 30' Catalina or Islander. They are nice boats and good fun but have a lot more room then the 27' Also +1 on the advice about finding a berth first.

[sandy daugherty]

Nobody buys their last boat first unless it was a HUGE mistake.

Living aboard is always an adventure. You wake up but can't see out the windows because they are covered with snow. You fire up the stove and use the last of your gas heating up enough water for a sponge bath, and you get dressed for work, first, then put on enough more clothes to survive the trip out side, which involves climbing frozen lines to get up to the dock covered with the aforementioned snow. Then its off to work, hopefully with a car that starts or public transportation that's close enough to avoid frostbite. When you get there, you've already had more adventure than most people care to do!

Go shopping for a marina first. Look for one with electrical connnections, and water that stays on in the winter. Find one with showers and laundry facilities, parking or public transit. Determine how much of your day is going to be available for profitable pursuits, and how much will have to be invested in commuting. Learn to cook, learn to shop for groceries that will fit in the boat's storage and refrigeration. Learn to sleep with an occasional cold drip. Ah, the ADVENTURE of it all!

The advice to go small and go early only applies to those who can GO!

[michaelmrc]

Originally Posted by Nomdaica

Hi Everyone,

I have been rethinking the 3 year plan of saving for a big 36" boat that seems perfect..... and buying smaller NOW and getting out on the water a lot sooner.

Why not buy something smaller and get out almost right away.

For example, I live in Vancouver where rent is quite high. The faster I own a boat outright, and live on it, is 1000.00 per month that I can save from rent. (for the next boat)

This boat is about one years rent for me:

1979 Catalina 27 $11,500 - Vancouver Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Vancouver Canada.

Why not take out a small loan and pay it off in one year and live the dream right away?

OR, another idea... offer him 3000.00 cash now, and 1000.00 per month until its paid off? I am sure it is costing him moorage and he is getting less and less each month that passes..

We could have a legal promissory note, and to him the boat would be sold.

Am I crazy? Any thoughts regarding a variety of these options?

THANKS everyone!

if you do get this catalina you may be interested in coming to the 3rd annual Catalina 27 rendevous in maple bay July 1-3
pm me if you would like more information.

[gonesail]

you may not be able to get a loan on a boat that old. if you have a loan you will pay insurance as well. better to own the boat outright and go from there .. but aye that is the problem. it's a good idea to save money .. good luck.

[boatman61]

Having lived on a comfortable 23 for a couple of years in the UK I'll vote go for it if your a minimalist... it looks and sounds just fine..
if you were planning on heading of straight away I'd say 30ft and a tougher boat.
Your reasoning makes sense and while your living aboard you'll get to know folks and who knows in a year or two with a bit of searching you may find someone wanting to move down and work a trade in....
There's many things I regret not doing when I had the chance...
But there's nothing I regret doing... even the screw ups...
'$*^t Happens'... and it makes for funny story's
If it feels right to you is what counts....

[Mark Johnson]

I gather that you are fairly young, single, and inexperienced? If that is the case, you have no way to really know if you'll like cruising. It is totally different from the impression that one would get from reading glossy cruising magazines. They don't misrepresent the wonderful side of cruising, but they do avoid writing about the downsides. It doesn't sell magazines!

I started out on my self built 23' cat @ 22 years old. In my mid 30s I was on a 28' tri with a 5' wide main hull and 4' 6" headroom. Then I got married, and the 28'er was too small. Our next / current boat, is a 34' tri, which is JUST big enough for a full time liveaboard for two.

Since my need for adventure always outpaced my finances, I have always advised that a person get the smallest boat that serves their needs. This "serves your needs" is the problem. You may not always be single, and need to give cruising a try before committing to a larger boat.

I suggest that you go for the smaller boat first, and figure weather you are a weekend cruiser, daysailor, blue water cruiser, seasonal escape cruiser, or island hopper.

Only then will you know what serves your needs.

Best of luck, Mark