Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-03-2016, 16:39   #61
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,005
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Convert Morgan 38 Centerboard To Full Keel?

If you've ever tried to sell a boat yourself, you'd understand why the owner wasn't willing to shell out a boat unit just so you could go for a sail. It's amazing how many people are professional shoppers with no intention of ever buying a boat. They get off on putting the owner through a bunch of hoops. I know I wouldn't make an effort other than showing the boat in it's berth till there was a deposit check and sales contract in hand.

First, sea trials are really not worth the time it takes to do it. Doubtful that you'd find anything out on a sail that wasn't obvious before you left the dock. Typically a sea trial is done in near ideal conditions or, more often, with very little wind and then it's even more worthless. Maybe you'd find out if a sail was blown out that might not be apparent spread out on a lawn. Stretching sails out on a lawn and carefully going over the seams, reinforcing patches, eyes, etc. will give you a way better idea of sail condition as you can inspect the whole sail. Doesn't appear that with your experience level you'd know what to look for in sail shape so any old baggy canvas would slip by you. Rigging is best inspected off the boat and the mast as well. Way easier to see the swages and wire when you can easily inspect the entire length on terra firma rather than 40' in the air. Same goes for the mast when the masthead and spreaders are at ground level and mast is off the step. If the mast is keel stepped also easier to see the mast base and step which is a common issue because of corrosion on older boats.

If the boat is in the water, you can run the engine in the slip to see how well it performs. Easy to run the rpm up and let it run in gear to see if the engine overheats and/or how the transmission performs. One of the best things you can do is find out how badly the hull to deck joint or other areas leak. Have someone soak the boat with a hose while you carefully follow along inspecting all the nooks and crannies where water can get in. With a rubber mallet, you can thump the deck and find delaminated sections and/or rotted core.

On the hard, harder to check the engine out but you can still run the engine and shift the transmission with a water hose stuck in the cooling water through hull. You can still get a hose and check for leaks. Big advantage is being able to inspect the boat below the water line. You can find problems with blisters, electrolysis, etc. that you'd have to pay a haul out charge for otherwise. A competent surveyor will be able to find most of the problems with a boat but even they want a boat hauled to do a thorough job.

Don't be put off by owners who don't want to take you out for an enjoyable day on the water, especially for a large boat that is for sale that cheap. Look at the boat carefully doing everything you can to find problems. Once you've done that, engage a surveyor and be there when the survey is done. Any discrepancies the Surveyor finds can be thoroughly gone over and get a good idea of what's involved in correcting them and even if they can be left as is without effecting safety or integrity of the boat.

IIRC, you have two kids. It that's the case, might want to find a boat with two quarter berths. They make good mini staterooms for small bodies that can be screened off from the main cabin with curtains.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat Story View Post
Hi there -

Here's the latest update to this thread...

I had just about decided to make the trip to Florida and check out this boat with my own eyes. I ran into some opposition with the owner who wanted me to pay to re-mast the boat BUT would not provide any sort of sea-trial.

Maybe that's not entirely unreasonable for an 8k boat... maybe. For me though, an inexperienced newbie, I need a bit more comfort in knowing that I'm not buying something with any ridiculous problems.

From my perspective, I felt as though the owner was trying to hide something from me by not allowing us a sea trial of any kind. They were adamant that the only way I could buy it was if I looked at it - and handed over 8k. Eh - not a risk that I'm willing to take.

I mean, I need to be able to test out the engine, transmission, rig, steering. Now, I know that I'm not buying a perfect boat by any means, but without being able to at least confirm that I've got a good engine, rig, and hull... no deal.

Now, I mentioned that I think the owner is trying to hide something, but I have no idea what. The boat has been for sale for a year with no takers. Although that doesn't seem to be uncommon at all in the used-sailboat market, I do think it's strange that they outright refuse any sort of demo, at any cost, regardless of circumstance. Weird.

Anyways, I definitely appreciate all of the insight into the centerboard matter. Even though this particular boat isn't going to be "the one" for us, I have still learned a lot from everyones insights and opinions.

So - moving on... we've now got our eye on an Endeavor 32 and also a few Out Island 33s. Still, regardless of what boat we end up deciding on, it won't be without a proper sea-trial and survey.

Thanks again everyone!
__________________

__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2016, 19:47   #62
Registered User
 
jewt's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New Bern, NC
Boat: 1969 Morgan 41 K/CB
Posts: 48
Re: Convert Morgan 38 Centerboard To Full Keel?

In the '80's when I was brokering boat, if you if you were seriously interested in a vessel you made a visual inspection, accompany by the broker and/or the seller, then made an offer, usually contingent upon satisfactory a marine survey and sea trials accompany by a 10% deposit, held in escrow, by the Brokerage.

If the survey and sea trails were not satisfactory, it was time to haggle over the price or owner repairs, or retract the offer. If the vessel had to be hauled for the survey(an in the water survey is not very helpful) the buyer had to bare the cost of the haul out, re-launch and the surveyor.

jewt

S/V Bifrost
__________________

__________________
jewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2016, 20:15   #63
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Convert Morgan 38 Centerboard To Full Keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewt View Post
In the '80's when I was brokering boat, if you if you were seriously interested in a vessel you made a visual inspection, accompany by the broker and/or the seller, then made an offer, usually contingent upon satisfactory a marine survey and sea trials accompany by a 10% deposit, held in escrow, by the Brokerage.

If the survey and sea trails were not satisfactory, it was time to haggle over the price or owner repairs, or retract the offer. If the vessel had to be hauled for the survey(an in the water survey is not very helpful) the buyer had to bare the cost of the haul out, re-launch and the surveyor.

jewt

S/V Bifrost
Yep.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 14:41   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Elizabethtown, Ontario, Canada
Boat: 1968 Morgan, Yawl, 41 ft.
Posts: 4
Re: Convert Morgan 38 Centerboard To Full Keel?

Hi,
This is my first response to the C&S forum. We have an old '68 Morgan 41 yawl with a centre board (4'2" board up- 9'8" board down ) It works great when going to windward, and reduces roll in light airs and following seas. The only problem we had was the cable that raises the board goes forward around a pulley attached to a steel plate under the mast step. The pulley is bronze, the steel plate is bolted to the lead keel, the mast step is aluminum, the cable is SS, and the stuffing box where the moveable bar to haul up the board leaks slightly as you use it, so that sea water often sits around these four metals. The steel plate rusts out first, letting the pulley loose and the board drops, hanging straight down. The moveable bar (1" dia.) pulled right out of the stuffing box, leaving a hole four feet below WL. Water comes fast when that happens so you need to haul right away . Now you have a problem because most haulout facilities cant accomodate a 9' + draft. This happened to us in Annapolis. With the help of divers, we got the board half way up, some slings under her, and hauled before too much water damage. I have since changed the system, with fewer different metals, and tried to isolate them as much as possible. Check out the board hauling system before you commit to repairs. There is a high load on all components, wih several blocks to direct the cable back to the cockpit mounted winch. These blocks were fastened to fibreglass bulkheads or glassed over wood bulkheads with ordinary steel wood screws. Not altogether one of Charly Morgan's better ideas. Good luck with your purchase.

John
__________________
JohnSilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 08:53   #65
Registered User
 
JTHAW's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: west Fl., Tampa Bay,
Boat: '76 Heritage West Indies 36 Morgan design
Posts: 156
Images: 4
Re: Convert Morgan 38 Centerboard To Full Keel?

as roverhi said....
my board is glassed in with a bit of xtra ballast added...if you aren't racing, I didn't get my boat for the phrf rating, its fine...a small bit of leeway is not going to make a difference cruising...my boat is also stiff so no big deal...having said that...
on my '71 morgan 35 cb... in the past, 2 things I don't have to worry about on my current...1. the board banged or thud in any kind of rolly anchorage.. quite annoying..
2. always the worry about mechanism, watertightness, cable, maint. pin, etc.
now I don't need to think about it...
__________________
had to sell my beauty, can't physically do the hard labor needed to sail and maintain,.. bad back....if you can?...Go
JTHAW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 09:39   #66
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Convert Morgan 38 Centerboard To Full Keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSilver View Post
Hi,
This is my first response to the C&S forum. We have an old '68 Morgan 41 yawl with a centre board (4'2" board up- 9'8" board down ) It works great when going to windward, and reduces roll in light airs and following seas. The only problem we had was the cable that raises the board goes forward around a pulley attached to a steel plate under the mast step. The pulley is bronze, the steel plate is bolted to the lead keel, the mast step is aluminum, the cable is SS, and the stuffing box where the moveable bar to haul up the board leaks slightly as you use it, so that sea water often sits around these four metals. The steel plate rusts out first, letting the pulley loose and the board drops, hanging straight down. The moveable bar (1" dia.) pulled right out of the stuffing box, leaving a hole four feet below WL. Water comes fast when that happens so you need to haul right away . Now you have a problem because most haulout facilities cant accomodate a 9' + draft. This happened to us in Annapolis. With the help of divers, we got the board half way up, some slings under her, and hauled before too much water damage. I have since changed the system, with fewer different metals, and tried to isolate them as much as possible. Check out the board hauling system before you commit to repairs. There is a high load on all components, wih several blocks to direct the cable back to the cockpit mounted winch. These blocks were fastened to fibreglass bulkheads or glassed over wood bulkheads with ordinary steel wood screws. Not altogether one of Charly Morgan's better ideas. Good luck with your purchase.

John
John,

Well said and sounds like advice others may benefit from.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 19:49   #67
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,034
Re: Convert Morgan 38 Centerboard To Full Keel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTHAW View Post
as roverhi said....

my board is glassed in with a bit of xtra ballast added...if you aren't racing, I didn't get my boat for the phrf rating, its fine...a small bit of leeway is not going to make a difference cruising...my boat is also stiff so no big deal...having said that...

on my '71 morgan 35 cb... in the past, 2 things I don't have to worry about on my current...1. the board banged or thud in any kind of rolly anchorage.. quite annoying..

2. always the worry about mechanism, watertightness, cable, maint. pin, etc.

now I don't need to think about it...

I disagree on the fact that leeway matters little when cruising. It could make a huge difference if you have a close hauled passage- 10-15 degrees difference in heading (which is what I observe with mine) can make the difference between arriving hours or even days earlier.
And in big seas and breeze, your CB could make the difference between successfully clawing off of a lee shore, or not.

Again, a good motor can mitigate this but I believe there's a reason designers included CBs in shoal draft boats- and it wasn't to save money or simplify or builders wouldn't have included them...


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
centerboard, keel, morgan

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Merriman centerboard winch will raise but not lower centerboard - stuck in la paz autumnbreeze27 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 58 30-11-2015 21:20
1968 Pearson 35 modified full keel centerboard DeftxM Monohull Sailboats 5 06-07-2014 20:15
Fin Keel vs. Full Keel Rayallyn Monohull Sailboats 201 04-09-2011 05:14
Center board vs keel vs twin keel vs twin centerboard jscott Monohull Sailboats 32 26-03-2009 15:48
Full Keel or Fin Keel? RedDragonSails Monohull Sailboats 23 06-10-2008 13:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.