Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-05-2015, 06:54   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NC
Boat: 1974 Morgan Out Island 33
Posts: 552
Comfort Index

I am 60, single, not wealthy, and want to liveaboard, and actually cruise. I am looking at $20k to buy which puts me solidly in 70s era boats. I can get a 33' in good condition and can afford the upkeep.

I would prefer something around 37'. My question is about handling and feel. How different is 33' at 11000 lbs vs 37' at 17000 lbs? Motion in weather. Motion in calm on hook. Safety in weather.

trying to decide whether to just do it on a 33' or keep looking for a 37ish.
__________________

__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2015, 07:19   #2
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,036
Re: comfort index

Impossible to say based on displacement itself. All things being equal (which is never the case), bigger will usually be better. It won't get knocked around as easy in seas, and won't be blown around as much. However, heavier boats can also get into deeper rhythmic patterns, and their added inertia can sustain uncomfortable movements longer. But as I say, design, hull shape, keel, rudder, rig..., and a bunch of other factors, will be as important as raw displacement.

In my case I went from a 34-foot, 12,000# modified fin ketch (Grampian 34) to a 37-foot, 30,000#, full-keel cutter (Rafiki 37). I definitely notice a difference in motion comfort between the two boats, but that is as much to do with the different hull designs -- although the added weight helps too .
__________________

__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2015, 07:45   #3
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,777
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: comfort index

different hulls perform differently ....sail em both and see what you think. sail everything then decide. cannot know until ye sail it what it will or wont do for you.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2015, 16:29   #4
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: comfort index

There's another factor determining the comfort and handling of your boat. Where will you be? Are you going to be comitted to a schedule or distant passage that puts you in less pleasant conditions?

We've been "actually cruising" liveaboards for 43 years, but we select when and where we crusie by conditions that please us. We make this choice beyond safety, but for comfort. Our choices don't limit our ability to cruise from Maine to the Bahamas. Today's weather forecasting will allow prudent decisions to keep you away from big storms and choices not to beat into heavy weather. You can still be subject to short duration thunder storms, but those can be dealt with and soon end.

How you plan to cruise and your plans to be comitted to a cruising schedule despite the weather are far greater factors than wether your boat is 33' or 37'.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2015, 18:29   #5
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: comfort index

Just another "index" to give people something to worry about from their armchairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2015, 18:58   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,360
Re: comfort index

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
I am 60, single, not wealthy, and want to liveaboard, and actually cruise. I am looking at $20k to buy which puts me solidly in 70s era boats. I can get a 33' in good condition and can afford the upkeep.

I would prefer something around 37'. My question is about handling and feel. How different is 33' at 11000 lbs vs 37' at 17000 lbs? Motion in weather. Motion in calm on hook. Safety in weather.

trying to decide whether to just do it on a 33' or keep looking for a 37ish.
What is your experience and what size boat?
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 08:26   #7
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,651
Re: comfort index

You're not going to find much of a boat for $20k; probably one needing $100k worth of refitting. The bigger the boat, the worse shape it will likely be in.

Learn to sail, first.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 08:41   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NC
Boat: 1974 Morgan Out Island 33
Posts: 552
Re: comfort index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
You're not going to find much of a boat for $20k
What I know is that if we talk to a man with a million dollar budget, he will say you will not find much of a boat for less than 500K.

So what was your budget, and thus what was your 'much of a boat' cutoff? And what does 'much of a boat' mean to you?

That is actually a fun (if not very useful) discussion. Everyone has their own concept of 'much of a boat'
__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 09:02   #9
Registered User
 
cntrycuz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 29
Images: 5
Re: comfort index

Many great deals out there.....remember Money Talks, and good deals don't last long....so are you really ready?
__________________
cntrycuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 13:40   #10
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 1,231
Re: comfort index

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
What I know is that if we talk to a man with a million dollar budget, he will say you will not find much of a boat for less than 500K.

So what was your budget, and thus what was your 'much of a boat' cutoff? And what does 'much of a boat' mean to you?

That is actually a fun (if not very useful) discussion. Everyone has their own concept of 'much of a boat'
I think the best rule of thumb that I have heard and has proven true in my case and others is to take the cost of the boat you buy and double it. So you are likely to spend (or ought to spend) another $20K just getting it into basically decent shape. That's assuming you do most of the work yourself...
__________________
gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 14:57   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NC
Boat: 1974 Morgan Out Island 33
Posts: 552
Re: comfort index

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
I think the best rule of thumb that I have heard and has proven true in my case and others is to take the cost of the boat you buy and double it. So you are likely to spend (or ought to spend) another $20K just getting it into basically decent shape. That's assuming you do most of the work yourself...
And of course that is fine. I expect that. So I end up spending $40K. Or I spend $40K and double that for $80K. Or I spend $80K and double that for $160K.

The next piece of the puzzle is that I can spend $20K and go live on it. Sail it around the bay, up and down the coast. Enjoy the heck out of my $20K as I spend more getting it up to snuff.

Or... I can save all my pennies for another two years and then buy a $40K boat, not spend the next two years enjoying my boat cause I don't have one yet, not have the additional $40K required to bring it up to snuff once I get it... or if I do, then spend 4 more years getting it up to snuff.

There are lots of folks with lots of opinions and different budgets. Whatever works for you is great - for you. And won't necessarily work for me.

I actually had one guy tell me I needed to buy TWO boats or I should just go home.

I told him I DID need to buy two boats and to please send the check for one of them to...

Never heard back from him.
__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 15:08   #12
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: comfort index

It seems that there is a suggestion that a $20K boat will cost you $40K or that you will have difficulty achieving your goals with your budget.

I say otherwise. You can have the boat that begins you adventures for well within your budget; however, the boat will continue to cost you money to maintain and upgrade.

My point is that you can be the liveaboard cruiser on a boat that takes you about the North Carolina sounds and up into the Cheasapeake. While you are enjoying this, you can gain experience and equipment ($) that will increase your cruising range.

So, buy the strong sound hull with good potential and grow with it. I'm assuming that after the $20K buy, you'll have an opportunity to budget a couple hundred a month into advancing your new cruising, liveaboard home.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 15:27   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NC
Boat: 1974 Morgan Out Island 33
Posts: 552
Re: comfort index

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
It seems that there is a suggestion that a $20K boat will cost you $40K or that you will have difficulty achieving your goals with your budget.

I say otherwise. You can have the boat that begins you adventures for well within your budget; however, the boat will continue to cost you money to maintain and upgrade.

My point is that you can be the liveaboard cruiser on a boat that takes you about the North Carolina sounds and up into the Cheasapeake. While you are enjoying this, you can gain experience and equipment ($) that will increase your cruising range.

So, buy the strong sound hull with good potential and grow with it. I'm assuming that after the $20K buy, you'll have an opportunity to budget a couple hundred a month into advancing your new cruising, liveaboard home.


And I know that. Just gotta educate some other folks.
__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 16:14   #14
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: comfort index

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post


And I know that. Just gotta educate some other folks.
I can't say these "other folks" are wrong or in need of education. It just seems that many people are less comfortable with spending less. Many will never feel as safe or secure if they haven't bought the more expensive product.

Take GPS units as an example. You can buy the simplest unit for about $100 that will give you lat & long coordinates that you can apply to a paper chart and be good with this information. .... or you can buy a unit for about $400 that will show your position on a fairly small screen (my choice). .....or you can spend a few thousand on a big screen, multi-color, interfaced, 16"x18" stainless mounted instrument that will sit on your binacle and pretty much block your view of the real world.

Oh no! My bias is showing! Anyway, I can't say that the big fancy toys are wrong, but they don't replace the basic knowledge.

Don't get me wrong,- I love technology. It's just that you can't always buy your way into secure navigation, safe passages and the best cruising.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2015, 17:13   #15
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,651
Re: comfort index

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
I think the best rule of thumb that I have heard and has proven true in my case and others is to take the cost of the boat you buy and double it...
Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Very few boats get the maintenance they actually require. As a result the deferred maintenance builds and builds until one day the boat would be a bad deal even if it were free.

You might expect to pay $150k for a new 35' boat. But you could find a 3-year old one, just like it, for $100k. While a 30-year old one might be $15k. The real difference between these 3 boats is how much it would cost to professionally make each one seaworthy and Bristol fashion:

The new boat, virtually $0.
The 3-year old, perhaps $20k.
The 30-year old, perhaps more than the cost of a brand new boat.

This depends much on how previous owners did or didn't lavish the boat with care and continual upgrades and maintenance. But simply examining the classifieds will show the wide spread of boat asking prices, this is largely based on age, for a given model. But condition is only everything.

Those shopping for a $15k bargain, on a boat that would cost $150k to replace, would be wise to understand the reason for the price difference, and the real cost of owning a $15k, one hundred and fifty thousand dollar yacht.
__________________

__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Corruption Index - 2003 GordMay Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 15 03-03-2006 14:11



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.