Comfort Index

[jwcolby54]

I am 60, single, not wealthy, and want to liveaboard, and actually cruise. I am looking at $20k to buy which puts me solidly in 70s era boats. I can get a 33' in good condition and can afford the upkeep.

I would prefer something around 37'. My question is about handling and feel. How different is 33' at 11000 lbs vs 37' at 17000 lbs? Motion in weather. Motion in calm on hook. Safety in weather.

trying to decide whether to just do it on a 33' or keep looking for a 37ish.

[Mike OReilly]

Impossible to say based on displacement itself. All things being equal (which is never the case), bigger will usually be better. It won't get knocked around as easy in seas, and won't be blown around as much. However, heavier boats can also get into deeper rhythmic patterns, and their added inertia can sustain uncomfortable movements longer. But as I say, design, hull shape, keel, rudder, rig..., and a bunch of other factors, will be as important as raw displacement.

In my case I went from a 34-foot, 12,000# modified fin ketch (Grampian 34) to a 37-foot, 30,000#, full-keel cutter (Rafiki 37). I definitely notice a difference in motion comfort between the two boats, but that is as much to do with the different hull designs -- although the added weight helps too .

[zeehag]

different hulls perform differently ....sail em both and see what you think. sail everything then decide. cannot know until ye sail it what it will or wont do for you.

[Hudson Force]

There's another factor determining the comfort and handling of your boat. Where will you be? Are you going to be comitted to a schedule or distant passage that puts you in less pleasant conditions?

We've been "actually cruising" liveaboards for 43 years, but we select when and where we crusie by conditions that please us. We make this choice beyond safety, but for comfort. Our choices don't limit our ability to cruise from Maine to the Bahamas. Today's weather forecasting will allow prudent decisions to keep you away from big storms and choices not to beat into heavy weather. You can still be subject to short duration thunder storms, but those can be dealt with and soon end.

How you plan to cruise and your plans to be comitted to a cruising schedule despite the weather are far greater factors than wether your boat is 33' or 37'.

[sailorboy1]

Just another "index" to give people something to worry about from their armchairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[BandB]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

I am 60, single, not wealthy, and want to liveaboard, and actually cruise. I am looking at $20k to buy which puts me solidly in 70s era boats. I can get a 33' in good condition and can afford the upkeep.

I would prefer something around 37'. My question is about handling and feel. How different is 33' at 11000 lbs vs 37' at 17000 lbs? Motion in weather. Motion in calm on hook. Safety in weather.

trying to decide whether to just do it on a 33' or keep looking for a 37ish.

What is your experience and what size boat?

[Terra Nova]

You're not going to find much of a boat for $20k; probably one needing $100k worth of refitting. The bigger the boat, the worse shape it will likely be in.

Learn to sail, first.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

You're not going to find much of a boat for $20k

What I know is that if we talk to a man with a million dollar budget, he will say you will not find much of a boat for less than 500K.

So what was your budget, and thus what was your 'much of a boat' cutoff? And what does 'much of a boat' mean to you?

That is actually a fun (if not very useful) discussion. Everyone has their own concept of 'much of a boat'

[cntrycuz]

Many great deals out there.....remember Money Talks, and good deals don't last long....so are you really ready?

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

What I know is that if we talk to a man with a million dollar budget, he will say you will not find much of a boat for less than 500K.

So what was your budget, and thus what was your 'much of a boat' cutoff? And what does 'much of a boat' mean to you?

That is actually a fun (if not very useful) discussion. Everyone has their own concept of 'much of a boat'

I think the best rule of thumb that I have heard and has proven true in my case and others is to take the cost of the boat you buy and double it. So you are likely to spend (or ought to spend) another $20K just getting it into basically decent shape. That's assuming you do most of the work yourself...

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I think the best rule of thumb that I have heard and has proven true in my case and others is to take the cost of the boat you buy and double it. So you are likely to spend (or ought to spend) another $20K just getting it into basically decent shape. That's assuming you do most of the work yourself...

And of course that is fine. I expect that. So I end up spending $40K. Or I spend $40K and double that for $80K. Or I spend $80K and double that for $160K.

The next piece of the puzzle is that I can spend $20K and go live on it. Sail it around the bay, up and down the coast. Enjoy the heck out of my $20K as I spend more getting it up to snuff.

Or... I can save all my pennies for another two years and then buy a $40K boat, not spend the next two years enjoying my boat cause I don't have one yet, not have the additional $40K required to bring it up to snuff once I get it... or if I do, then spend 4 more years getting it up to snuff.

There are lots of folks with lots of opinions and different budgets. Whatever works for you is great - for you. And won't necessarily work for me.

I actually had one guy tell me I needed to buy TWO boats or I should just go home.

I told him I DID need to buy two boats and to please send the check for one of them to...

Never heard back from him.

[Hudson Force]

It seems that there is a suggestion that a $20K boat will cost you $40K or that you will have difficulty achieving your goals with your budget.

I say otherwise. You can have the boat that begins you adventures for well within your budget; however, the boat will continue to cost you money to maintain and upgrade.

My point is that you can be the liveaboard cruiser on a boat that takes you about the North Carolina sounds and up into the Cheasapeake. While you are enjoying this, you can gain experience and equipment ($) that will increase your cruising range.

So, buy the strong sound hull with good potential and grow with it. I'm assuming that after the $20K buy, you'll have an opportunity to budget a couple hundred a month into advancing your new cruising, liveaboard home.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

It seems that there is a suggestion that a $20K boat will cost you $40K or that you will have difficulty achieving your goals with your budget.

I say otherwise. You can have the boat that begins you adventures for well within your budget; however, the boat will continue to cost you money to maintain and upgrade.

My point is that you can be the liveaboard cruiser on a boat that takes you about the North Carolina sounds and up into the Cheasapeake. While you are enjoying this, you can gain experience and equipment ($) that will increase your cruising range.

So, buy the strong sound hull with good potential and grow with it. I'm assuming that after the $20K buy, you'll have an opportunity to budget a couple hundred a month into advancing your new cruising, liveaboard home.

And I know that. Just gotta educate some other folks.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

And I know that. Just gotta educate some other folks.

I can't say these "other folks" are wrong or in need of education. It just seems that many people are less comfortable with spending less. Many will never feel as safe or secure if they haven't bought the more expensive product.

Take GPS units as an example. You can buy the simplest unit for about $100 that will give you lat & long coordinates that you can apply to a paper chart and be good with this information. .... or you can buy a unit for about $400 that will show your position on a fairly small screen (my choice). .....or you can spend a few thousand on a big screen, multi-color, interfaced, 16"x18" stainless mounted instrument that will sit on your binacle and pretty much block your view of the real world.

Oh no! My bias is showing! Anyway, I can't say that the big fancy toys are wrong, but they don't replace the basic knowledge.

Don't get me wrong,- I love technology. It's just that you can't always buy your way into secure navigation, safe passages and the best cruising.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I think the best rule of thumb that I have heard and has proven true in my case and others is to take the cost of the boat you buy and double it...

Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Very few boats get the maintenance they actually require. As a result the deferred maintenance builds and builds until one day the boat would be a bad deal even if it were free.

You might expect to pay $150k for a new 35' boat. But you could find a 3-year old one, just like it, for $100k. While a 30-year old one might be $15k. The real difference between these 3 boats is how much it would cost to professionally make each one seaworthy and Bristol fashion:

The new boat, virtually $0.
The 3-year old, perhaps $20k.
The 30-year old, perhaps more than the cost of a brand new boat.

This depends much on how previous owners did or didn't lavish the boat with care and continual upgrades and maintenance. But simply examining the classifieds will show the wide spread of boat asking prices, this is largely based on age, for a given model. But condition is only everything.

Those shopping for a $15k bargain, on a boat that would cost $150k to replace, would be wise to understand the reason for the price difference, and the real cost of owning a $15k, one hundred and fifty thousand dollar yacht.