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Old 31-05-2015, 19:25   #61
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Re: comfort index

To the OP, just get on board as many boats as you can. You'll probably find that you don't care for the nearly vertical ladder down the companionway on some models, the layout of the interior, the fact that your knees don't fit when you have a seat in the head, etc...
And as others have noted, check the prices on different sized sails, winches, etc... That's a real education in itself.
Go for something you can find in your price range that offers comfort at the dock, i.e., Islander 32 or Cal 34.....and just go sailing when there isn't serious chop and/or whitecaps, 30 knot winds...
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Old 31-05-2015, 21:34   #62
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Re: comfort index

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I'm gonna save you a ton of money:

If the maintenance cost difference between a 33' boat and 37' is too much for you, don't get a boat of any size!
If you have a ton of money why you don't throw some away? What is the point having a bigger boat when smaller one is plenty of boat for you?
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Old 31-05-2015, 21:45   #63
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Re: comfort index

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If you have a ton of money why you don't throw some away? What is the point having a bigger boat when smaller one is plenty of boat for you?
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Old 01-06-2015, 05:36   #64
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Re: Comfort Index

I helped move someone's old 34' boat the other day. It had been 8 years since I have been on a boat that size and after there was no doubt in my mind why I have a bigger boat. If I had the small boat I wouldn't be saying to myself "Look how much money I'm saving" I would be saying to myself "Look how much money I'm wasting on this".

Is the point this thread really just to convince yourself that a small boat is a good choice? If you want a small get one stop looking for some fan club to tell you it is the right choice and go get one.
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:06   #65
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Re: comfort index

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Along with twice the displacement is a lot of hardware costing more than twice the price, like winches, for example.
If we talk comfort, then extra winches will likely come along with the more comfortable boat. If we want to derive any comfort from displacement then we must accept the winches as a part of our comfort package, I am afraid.

Price I do not care. The thread says comfort. I am not sure cheap, big and safe co-exist.

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Old 01-06-2015, 07:20   #66
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Re: Comfort Index

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I helped move someone's old 34' boat the other day. It had been 8 years since I have been on a boat that size and after there was no doubt in my mind why I have a bigger boat. If I had the small boat I wouldn't be saying to myself "Look how much money I'm saving" I would be saying to myself "Look how much money I'm wasting on this".

Is the point this thread really just to convince yourself that a small boat is a good choice? If you want a small get one stop looking for some fan club to tell you it is the right choice and go get one.
Sailorboy, you are about as much of a mess as my other 'friend'.

I am not sure exactly who you are addressing, or why you would make such a post. You are able to afford what you are able to afford, you made your decision based on that. You seemed to take offense to a post about wasting money, so my guess is that you have an issue about how much you have spent on your ride.

I for one don't have your funds, so I can't buy your ride, even if I wanted it. If I had the funds I might very well buy your ride, but if I did I would not be embarrassed about having done so.

There seems to be a TON of crap in this forum about folk who don't have a lot of money buying old low cost boats. A TON OF CRAP. Lots of folks trying hard to "save them". A TON OF CRAP mostly from folks with very expensive boats (to those buying the low cost boats). Folks who (as you yourself put it) "spent the money to just go sailing so you didn't have to spend time fixing up the boat".

YOU SAID THAT Sailorboy! What a jackass thing to say to someone who doesn't have your money!

Of course you HAVE the money to "just go sailing". And you insist on telling the less fortunate the errors of their ways. Which translates to the less fortunate as "go away, this forum isn't for you poor folk". "If you can't afford $xyz you really shouldn't be here (sailing OR on this forum)." Is that what you are trying to say, cause that is precisely what it sounds like.

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Old 01-06-2015, 07:38   #67
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Re: comfort index

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Price I do not care. The thread says comfort. I am not sure cheap, big and safe co-exist.
b.
And you know what, it is a valid thing to talk about that. I have observed a lot of nice folks in this forum and in this thread, trying hard to be useful, and I very much appreciate it.

I have also observerd a few on the other end of the spectrum.

There are folks trying to get on the water who just can't drop $150K on a ride. So we try to discuss the relative merits of 33' vs 37' and are told "if the difference matters, you really shouldn't be sailing" or something to that effect. Damned rude if you ask me.

How about folks with that attitude bowing out and allowing the more generous folks to pipe in with real solid and helpful data.

For example I know from looking that a 33' boat averages around 10-12 K lbs. A 37K boat comes in around 17K lbs. No idea what a 40' boat weighs 'cause I can't afford one and so don't look. As you pointed out, just that difference changes the size and cost of a lot of things.

So instead of "if the difference matters you need to go away" comments, how about the kind and gentle folks piping up with "I have a 40' boat and because of the weight of my boat, the anchor itself needs to be X lbs and I paid Y$, the chain needs to be X size and I paid $Y, the sails are this big and cost $Y."

It would only take a handful of boat sizes to get a real useful feeling for the actual costs involved, and where those costs come from.

That would allow me (for one) to make better decisions.

So let me just say thanks for the majority of folks out there who have been very helpful in my search for a boat I can not only afford to buy but afford to keep.
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:43   #68
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Re: Comfort Index

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
"If you can't afford $xyz you really shouldn't be here (sailing OR on this forum)." Is that what you are trying to say, cause that is precisely what it sounds like.

I'm trying to tell you that buying a "cheap" boat is NOT a way to save money. The friend I helped the other day has spend as much on his "good deal" and not gotten to sail it for 4 years and as he could have spent to have gotten a boat he could have sailed. And it still has a long way to go.

If you don't like the advice you get stop asking and just get a boat.
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:47   #69
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Re: comfort index

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And as others have noted, check the prices on different sized sails, winches, etc... That's a real education in itself.
I absolutely understand that. However the problem with that is that without a reference the prices are meaningless. I can go look at various size anchors but how big a boat is that anchor over there used on. Is there any web page or spreadsheet that lays out a boat size vs size / cost of some list of parts - Anchor, chain, windless, rigging, sails and so forth? That would be very helpful.
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:48   #70
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Re: comfort index

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
'continuing with these thoughts about docking a somewhat larger boat, or any boat for that matter, I'm not agreeing with the avice that suggests a proper procedure such as stern in first, bow in first, or use a particular spring line first, - stepping off with a line or tossing a loop around a piling or cleat.

The only details that I can agree witth is Terra Nova's advice to plan ahead in preparation with fenders and lines, etc. I also prepare lines at locations where I'm not expecting to need them, just so I'm ready for the unexpected.

As far as the details as to the approach, warpping, springs and such that all needs to be sorted out according to the amount and direction of wind and current. We find what works for us is a custom plan that fits the conditions. Sometimes you don't want fenders or you don't want a line tossed to someone ashore.
The whole plan ahead or if you are compentent apply regardles of the number of crew.

But given the same level of planning and competence of the captain, there will be a greater ability to adapt with aditional crew. Once you move beyond very small boats, the advantages of a second set of eyes and hands on deck are a substantial improvement. The bigger the boat the more of an improvement they are.

Can you get away with single handing...sure but your odds of recovering from an unexpected issue are dramatically worse. What happens if you break your leg falling down the companion way steps and can't climb back up? With a second crew, they can radio for assistance if appropriate and heave to or head the boat back to port. By yourself, you continue to sail into the path of that oncoming frieghter.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:06   #71
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Re: Comfort Index

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I'm trying to tell you that buying a "cheap" boat is NOT a way to save money. The friend I helped the other day has spend as much on his "good deal" and not gotten to sail it for 4 years and as he could have spent to have gotten a boat he could have sailed. And it still has a long way to go.

If you don't like the advice you get stop asking and just get a boat.
Sailorboy, I don't know if you checked, but I wasn't asking. Really, I wasn't. You keep thinking I am asking but I never did. There is not a single post of mine, anywhere in this forum where I ever asked anyone's opinion on whether I should buy XYZ.

AND there are a TON of posts telling me that I shouldn't buy XYZ.

Well, I didn't ask for that advice so you are welcome to stop giving it.

Let me be very clear, I am doing my own research, I am highly intelligent, I make my own decisions, and I do in fact take each and every post into account. But I need data, not opinions.

Now, as far as THIS SPECIFIC THREAD, if you go back to post #1, I asked a very specific question. It would seem that you have nothing useful to say on the subject of this specific thread. You have enough money that you do not own a boat the size that I am asking about. You apparently cannot even fathom not having that much money so you cannot mentally put yourself into the position of wanting to buy this size (and age) boat. You keep telling me that I should buy a big boat, but then telling me that I can't afford to buy a big boat.

So there really and truly isn't much point of your even speaking up in this thread. And I am not trying to be rude in saying that SailorBoy, you have made it very clear that you simply cannot even relate to the subject.

I want to make it clear that I read dozens and dozens of threads here. You (sailorboy) have made hundreds of intelligent, useful and wise comments on subjects where you have experience.

But your missing the mark in this thread.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:22   #72
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Re: Comfort Index

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I am 60, single, not wealthy, and want to liveaboard, and actually cruise. I am looking at $20k to buy which puts me solidly in 70s era boats. I can get a 33' in good condition and can afford the upkeep.

I would prefer something around 37'. My question is about handling and feel. How different is 33' at 11000 lbs vs 37' at 17000 lbs? Motion in weather. Motion in calm on hook. Safety in weather.

trying to decide whether to just do it on a 33' or keep looking for a 37ish.
Comfort within the known limits of human sensitivity is very subjective. NASA has published good data on human comfort based on displacement, velocity, acceleration and jerk (rate of change of acceleration). This data correlates very well car motion.

But in sailing you have a much greater broadband input where wave superposition creates very different motions. In short I haven't seen any comfort data for small vessels. So any so called comfort rating is unlikely to help you.

How you load your vessel, when you decide to sail and how you balance it with sail will have more impact on comfort. For $20k comfort isn't going to be your primary selection criteria.

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Old 01-06-2015, 08:37   #73
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Re: Comfort Index

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You keep telling me that I should buy a big boat, but then telling me that I can't afford to buy a big boat.
Nope. You must want to just argue. I told you not to buy a cheap boat. But I don't care what boat you get, if you ever even do.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:45   #74
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Re: Comfort Index

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Nope. You must want to just argue. I told you not to buy a cheap boat. But I don't care what boat you get, if you ever even do.
But sailorboy, am I asking for your advice? Why do you need to give me advice? How about giving me data instead.

To be honest Sailorboy I do not want to argue. You have never seen me follow you around arguing with your posts. OTOH you come into my threads and argue.

What I truly want is for you to take your advice somewhere it is wanted. Which is decidedly not here.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:47   #75
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Re: Comfort Index

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post

I would prefer something around 37'. My question is about handling and feel. How different is 33' at 11000 lbs vs 37' at 17000 lbs? Motion in weather. Motion in calm on hook. Safety in weather.

trying to decide whether to just do it on a 33' or keep looking for a 37ish.
Never have been on a 37', but have been on a 33', 34', 36', 39', 43' boat.

I would say the 37' in general is of course going to be more comfort than a 33' boat in all conditions.

BUT it depends a lot on what boat you are talking between to really say how much.

Hope that answers your question to your satisfaction
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