Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-03-2017, 05:37   #1
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 16,496
Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

I put this here as many who live aboard regularly use Chlorine to sterilize their water and tanks.
I have aluminum tanks and have been searching for a viable replacement for Chlorine in an attempt to save my tank, and have stumbled on what appears to be a real, honest link between using Chlorine to sterilize water and hardening of the Arteries. From what I can find the greater the amount of Chlorine the more the effect, and often boaters will use levels of Chlorine that are pretty high, and if you live on your boat, then the level of exposure is orders of magnitude higher than the average person living on land, if your dosing with Chlorine.

Do any of you Medical Professionals out there have an educated opinion on this? Is there really a link?
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 06:37   #2
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,635
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

chlorine is a poison.
chlorine is bad for your bilge pumps and stainless water tanks as well as your lungs and body.
oops.
keep on using it....
__________________

zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 06:51   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,226
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

I'm assuming a good, activated carbon filter that leaves little to no chlorine smell/taste in the drinking water eliminates this concern?
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:01   #4
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 16,496
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I'm assuming a good, activated carbon filter that leaves little to no chlorine smell/taste in the drinking water eliminates this concern?
I would also assume this is true.
Start doing some Googling, I have and it seems chlorinated water and breast cancer and other cancers as well as hardening of the arteries is real. I mean real sites, CDC, Scientific American, other real sites, not the nut ones proving Elvis is alive.
I bumbled into this and am now thinking that some of us that regularly add half a cup of Clorox etc to our water tanks thinking it's the healthy thing to do, well it may not be.
I am not abdicating not disinfecting water and bringing such lovely diseases like Cholera back.
Just maybe find safer methods, filtering our water with charcoal block filters and not going for the Clorox.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:04   #5
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Arlington, VA
Boat: 2009 Beneteau 40 USVI 2003 Beneteau 423 MD
Posts: 149
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Wow. A quick search shows published papers that show a correlation between chlorine and atherosclerosis. 2/3 of exposure through inhaling steam in the shower?

I have had whole house carbon block filters because of the irritation of chlorine and chloramine dosed water in the shower and drinking water. But, haven't had that problem on the boat. We have a seagull filter for drinking water and an RV filter for water going in the tank.

Cheers, RickG
__________________
RickG & Sweet Christine
S/V Echoes - 2003 Beneteau 423
Deale, MD
RickG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:06   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: On the hook in Florida
Boat: Tayana V42 - Passages
Posts: 504
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

A half cup of chlorine is insane unless you have really large tanks. Two tablespoons per 100 gallons is a lot.
__________________
Trying to live on 20th century money in the 21st century.
jcapo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:09   #7
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 9,839
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I would also assume this is true.
Start doing some Googling, I have and it seems chlorinated water and breast cancer and other cancers as well as hardening of the arteries is real. I mean real sites, CDC, Scientific American, other real sites, not the nut ones proving Elvis is alive.
I bumbled into this and am now thinking that some of us that regularly add half a cup of Clorox etc to our water tanks thinking it's the healthy thing to do, well it may not be.
I am not abdicating not disinfecting water and bringing such lovely diseases like Cholera back.
Just maybe find safer methods, filtering our water with charcoal block filters and not going for the Clorox.
er .. photo taken on Mars expedition....

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:25   #8
Registered User
 
hafa's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 258
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I'm assuming a good, activated carbon filter that leaves little to no chlorine smell/taste in the drinking water eliminates this concern?
While carbon filters are good at removing odor and undesirable taste from water (most in the form of VOCs), some pathogens are not removed with a carbon filter. A sufficiently powerful UV light, however, is very effective at killing them.

Our home is off-grid for water (as well as power), with 30k gal. water stored in light-tight concrete tanks. Our treatment is this:

1) 5 micron filter before NSF pump
2) UV reactor after pump
3) Charcoal Carbon filter at sink

We've been drinking the water from our system for 12 years without any issues. A quick search for 12V UV water purifier turns up results here and here.

The first unit is very affordable, has a reasonable power profile, and incorporates a carbon filter as well in a single compact unit.
__________________
hafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:35   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,226
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

I have also read an article about the dangers of breathing chlorine vapors in a shower.

Bottom line, chlorine is very nasty stuff. That's why it does a good job of disinfecting water, it kills things like bacteria. It was used as a WMD in WWI and Iraq. Company I used to work for sold pool chemicals. A warehouse where they stored chlorine tablets had a fire and the city evacuated everyone for blocks.

Chlorine gas is shipped in huge quantities in rail cars for industrial use and is considered one of the most dangerous things on the road. If you want to read something really scary download the SDS for chlorine gas.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:42   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Nantucket, MA
Posts: 42
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Anytime you want to read the actual studies that support or refute medical claims, I recommend the US "National Library of Medicine" at
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
Just enter the search terms (such as chlorine atherosclerosis) and PubMed will search 26 million articles. Most will give the abstract of the article; some will link to a free copy of the entire article.
__________________
dennismckim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:46   #11
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 16,496
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

As a small kid, one of my trips to the ER was caused by me bending over and down into the barrel of chlorine powder we put into the pool as it was almost empty. I must have taken a deep breath of chlorine gas because I could not "catch" my breath, I was coughing horribly.
My Father was a pilot and happened to have the O2 bottle and put me on O2 and off to the ER we went.
There were other trips of course
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 19:51   #12
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,071
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

A64pilot,

We have a friend with an all aluminum boat, so the chlorine in the water supply was a problem for him. He eventually came up with a two filter system that he puts between the city water supply and the input to his tanks that filters all the chlorine out, he thinks. I don't know how you could check that the removal is total. Any ideas?

(Imo, we really don't want to drink sterile water, just water that is safe for us, like A64Pilot suggested, no cholera need apply!)

hafa: do you happen to know the power consumption of the unit you're using?

Ann
__________________
with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers

"Today's misfortune is tomorrow's adventure."
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 21:26   #13
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,218
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Any pet store (or Amazon) will have test tapes for free chlorine (NOT chloride--that's different). You want ti have a detectable residual (0.1-1ppm) after 1 hour. More is NOT needed or better, and 4ppm is the USEPA upper limit. Typically only 1 tsp bleach/50 gallons is needed. You don't need much if the water is clean.

After carbon block filtration the number should be ~ 80% lower, but many variables affect this, including flow rate and filter age. Carbon filtration while filling the tank is generally ineffective because the flow rate is FAR too high--most hose filters remove only 5-15% at 5 gpm. I've tested many. All they actually catch is the junk that sheds from the hose and pipes, which is a valuable service, although they clog quickly.

The purpose of pre-filtration is 2-fold: to keep sludge out of the tank and to reduce the production of chlorination by-products. The cleaner the source water, the less chlorine is needed, the less there is for the chlorine to react with, the better the product.

And for what it is work, carbon does not adsorb chlorine, it reacts with it, being sacrificially burned in the process. In fact, low levels of chlorine can extend the life of carbon block filters, by burning off organic contaminants.

I think we're waving the bloody shirt here. Simply use chlorine properly.

I cover treatment and rainwater collection in detail here ("Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"). I have also done a good bit of testing for articles.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 03:42   #14
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,195
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I put this here as many who live aboard regularly use Chlorine to sterilize their water and tanks.
I have aluminum tanks and have been searching for a viable replacement for Chlorine in an attempt to save my tank, and have stumbled on what appears to be a real, honest link between using Chlorine to sterilize water and hardening of the Arteries. From what I can find the greater the amount of Chlorine the more the effect, and often boaters will use levels of Chlorine that are pretty high, and if you live on your boat, then the level of exposure is orders of magnitude higher than the average person living on land, if your dosing with Chlorine.

Do any of you Medical Professionals out there have an educated opinion on this? Is there really a link?
Not a medical professional, just a water treater guy.

You have been drinking chlorinated water all you life in the US. Do you really think doing so on the boat is going to be different? A charcoal filter for drinking will remove the chlorine for taste etc.

A good alternative to chlorine for your aluminum tanks would be hydrogen peroxide. I'll let you do the research (been covered here before).
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 06:36   #15
Registered User
 
appick's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Boat: 1973 Easterly 36
Posts: 445
Re: Chlorine and Atherrosclerosis

Let's clarify you are using sodium hypochlorite, otherwise known as laundry bleach or bleach. Chlorine is an element. There are many other chemical compounds with Chlorine that can be used for sanitation and some of those are safe for aluminum, or aluminium for our UK friends
Chlorine dioxide is one that would work well.
__________________

__________________
"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." Antoine de
appick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chlorine in Water-Cooled Refrigeration Flow skipgundlach Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 22 26-08-2014 14:11
Cheap chlorine from pool supplier work? jmcdboater Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 2 19-10-2013 19:06
Chlorine in Fresh Water SVNeko Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 4 30-03-2013 17:07
Chlorine Dioxide sailorboy1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 16-11-2011 06:53
Chlorine Tablet Sitting in Seawater Supply Line rebel heart Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 32 29-01-2010 23:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.