Checking in and out of the Bahamas with Guns Aboard

[John A]

I was cruising for ten years and I'm thankful that I didn't have a gun when I awoke from a nap, during a night passage to St. Croix. The people that scared me almost to death when they boarded my boat were USCG.

[su2014]

Originally Posted by glplargo

I have not cruised into Mexico but I have been there a few times in the past four years and made a point to research their gun laws. Despite the fact that the Mexican Constitution has a near exact copy of our Second Amendment in it, they do not interpret it anything like we do and the Mexican authorities are pretty intolerant of firearm possession by mere citizens. Any one who does get a permit is only allowed to possess the gun in their home; transporting it to a gunsmith or a range requires a separate transportation permit. And citizens are only allowed to possess "non-military" firearms, which basically means shotguns or .32 caliber and smaller. Any calibers larger than a .32 is considered contraband and is a prison offense. This includes the ammo, not just the gun. My understanding is that if you declare your weapons they will confiscate the "non-military" ammo and guns (you might get them back when you leave) and you will be in a lot of trouble if you declare the larger calibers. It is possible to get a permit but I've heard it takes a long time and is impractical for cruisers.

welcome to CF.noticed this was first post.we must have been typing at same time and you are probably right-on about "over.32 cal not .38cal".personally i dont spend much time researching gun-laws beforehand but i usually declare.i have fired a warning shot out the port-hole once and it worked like a charm.i dont ever want to clear the deck red but i will if they dont leave fast.even a flare-gun fired right away would work and it attracts attention which most thieves dont want.there really isnt a big problem in the islands with "unauthorized boardings" in most areas.however as with most tools it is wise to have one when needed.years ago i saw DR customs carrying what looked to be 4-5 rifles off the dock.at that time all we bothered to have was a 12gauge and were allowed to keep it onboard. now times have got worse and i use different tools that i would rather not mention as thieves break-in when your onshore because they want the tools you left onboard. never wise to advertise you got pistolas in every cabin drawer.and a loaded 12 gauge .after-all .what good use is an unusable tool when you only got seconds to react. fairwinds and godspeed.

[su2014]

Originally Posted by John A

I was cruising for ten years and I'm thankful that I didn't have a gun when I awoke from a nap, during a night passage to St. Croix. The people that scared me almost to death when they boarded my boat were USCG.

yes . same happened to us in Dominica{loud navy gunboat} ,DR{agent in small fishing skiff} and USCG several times but never at night while anchored.i am not from texas so i dont shoot first and ask questions later. thou shall not shed innocent blood is my motto as well as maintain the right.fairwinds and godspeed.

[biker6977]

Thanks for the info. Looks like we'll be doing a lot of cruising to Bahamas, other places will have to be decided upon. I guess perhaps it's an American thing- wanting our guns- but it's a mind set and we won't be changing it any time soon. I think we'd feel naked with out them.

[JK n Smitty]

How do people keep them secure is the question I am trying to figure out. Did you install some kind of safe? Just a trigger lock and put them in a locker?

I have been looking at this shotgun safe. My thought is to mount it to a bulk head but it wouldn't take much more that a crow bar to get it off the bulk head. But it could be stored in a secure way that would be legal in the state I live in for now and even if someone got it off the wall they would still need to cut open the safe to be able to fire the gun. My thought is to put a Mossberg 500 Mariner in it. Any thoughts from those who are traveling with shot guns?

Thanks,

Jesse

[Certeza]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

I'm a big fan of empirical data. I'll leave the generalized statistics and the flawed doctoral studies to those folks who need to demonize coffee for causing cancer.

So, I am curious. For all those who responded, could you please give us the (approximate) number of years you've been sailing the waters about which we speak (Bahamas, ICW) - and match it with the number of times you've needed to use or threaten to use your weapons?

Thanks in advance.

I don't keep guns, but just felt that I should point out that the empirical data does exist. Not so much for the Carrib. but around Somalia and other piracy hot spots globally. After the peak piracy period around 2011, ships started carrying long range rifles and/or employing security teams aboard. I've read through all reported attempts and boardings from 2013 and 2014 to date. It breaks down like this...

There were a few hostile boardings/attacks, but none of those vessels had and/or used a long range weapon for defense.

While not nearly as many as in 2011, there were still a decent number of piracy attempts during the last 18 months. In over 90% of reported attempts, warning flares were set off first as soon as the suspect vessel was close enough that the ship could see weapons and/or ladders through high powered binoculars. Roughly 20-30% of the time the suspect vessel stopped after the flares. For those who didn't stop, warning shots were fired with long range rifles just close enough to let them know the seriousness of the situation. An additional 60% or so stopped at this point. For the last 10-20% who didn't stop at the warning shot, there were a couple additional rounds fired directly at the approaching vessel. Every one of these vessels fled.

What empirical data does exist strongly suggests that defensive weapons are the only thing that has been successful in both thwarting and deterring piracy. Attacks on boats are not part of some kind of turf war. The pirates simply want a pay day and are not prepared to die for it. But it should also be noted that short range weapons have not been shown as effective, including handguns and shotguns. They are very effective in short range situations like home invasion, but for piracy, the long range rifle is the only things that has proven itself in more than just an isolated incident.

Basically, pirates are not petty thieves who sneak aboard at night and try to steal your dinghy. Most of those will be scared off by a good loud yell. ANY firearm is equally effective against petty thieves as they really try to avoid confrontation at all cost. Pirates are a different story. They fully expect confrontation, and the likely intent is full confiscation of the vessel and/or hostages for ransom. They often carry long range weapons themselves, so by the time they are within range of a shotgun or handgun, you've probably lost the fight already. The best bet is to get them to turn around and leave before they get too close, which has only been accomplished consistently to this point via long range rifles.

[su2014]

yes certeza, that area off somalia is to be avoided i figure.a boatload of guys with ak-47s coming after you in broad daylight aint a healthy sign i figure unless your on the deck of a container ship shooting back from 400 metres.our tools are kept for those remote times when a simple shot from a flaregun doesnt work.never heard of boatloads of pirates sporting ak-47s anywhere in the carib fromFLA down to trinidad or brazil.have heard of a recent machette attack in a remote anchorage recently. recall 3 were arrested later.fairwinds and godspeed.

[su2014]

[QUOTE=JK n Smitty;1590633]How do people keep them secure is the question I am trying to figure out. Did you install some kind of safe? Just a trigger lock and put them in a locker?

if you want to keep them secure when your onshore than bolt a steel box to something solid. most just use combination-type or key-type triggerlocks and leave it close to where they sleep.legal and safe as most places dont specify stored empty or loaded just locked.as you typed most will just crowbar it off the bulkhead or whatever if what they want are your guns.put your spearguns in the steel box is my advice and put your 12 gauge by your bed.what good is your mariner locked in a steel box if 2-3 machette maniacs are breaking through your cockpit door.you only got seconds to react. fairwinds and godspeed

[Goosebumps]

invention usefull for armed cruisers, a ditchbag for the guns, that can be inflated by remote, after it has been ditched from yacht, in order to revupsrate later when customs, other law enforcement gas searched shop. The gadget would be enhanced by a beacon that can give its position to scanner, app on smart phone or tablet, or just do mob on yr gps. A fast ditch method for surprise visits by law enforcement very usefull.


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[DailyLunatic]

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

invention usefull for armed cruisers, a ditchbag for the guns, that can be inflated by remote, after it has been ditched from yacht, in order to revupsrate later when customs, other law enforcement gas searched shop. The gadget would be enhanced by a beacon that can give its position to scanner, app on smart phone or tablet, or just do mob on yr gps. A fast ditch method for surprise visits by law enforcement very usefull.

I got too much Boy Scout in me to try to evade the law that way.

-sterling

[Goosebumps]

invention I suggested was not to solve the legal, consciental or ethical part of the guns on board problem, nor to suggest to circumvent the law, but reality has it that cruisers can be extremely vulnerable to violent crime. I personally dont carry arms on board and have never needed any. Then again i suppose i havent visited high crime cruising areas. Although lots of pirate akarm just north of where i cruise, communities of north mozambique, majority muslim, have no tendency to violent crime.


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[sailr69]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Not going to get in to a gun debate, but I do find it interesting that only Americans bring guns in to the Bahamas, and probably the Caribean as well. Never heard of a Canadian or other nationality even discuss the subject.

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you must remember Americans are gun nuts, NRA and ISIS? same thing, different haircuts, different religion

[BZT54]

Originally Posted by sailr69

you must remember Americans are gun nuts, NRA and ISIS? same thing, different haircuts, different religion

ISIS the same thing? The two guys that lost their heads would disagree. Did you ever think that some of us Americans have guns because the US gun culture dictates it. When you have over 250 million Americans with guns you are a fool if you don't at least have a shotgun and a 9mm. That's entry level in the US. Canadian's don't have to carry because we have always had their back.

BZT
PS I would never go down island without being armed. In todays world that's just common sense. Idealism will get you killed....

[Goosebumps]

ok thats it am out of gun debate



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[BZT54]

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

ok thats it am out of gun debate



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You must be Canadian.....
BZT