Boat costs? 39' (12 m)compared to 49' (15m)?

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Originally Posted by DeepCut

You want o make money for a couple of years WITH A BOAT???

"How do you make a small fortune in boating business?" Answer: "Start with a LARGE fortune".

I owned and operated a Cruising Charter Vessel for about 5 years on the Great Lakes. I started primarily to sail more and have Crew. Cruises were typically 3-4 days.
Turned out to be extremely profitable and paid for many upgrades for my passage to the Caribbean.
The Guests brought and cooked their own food including me. They did most of the helming and on visits ashore to restaurants/bars I was included and not permitted to pay.
Price was $200/day/person and usually involved 5-6 Guests.
I would leave my harbour between 8-9 am and return between 8-9 pm. I had a Molly Maid service that came aboard and stripped all bed linen for laundering, cleaned the heads and cabins, cockpit overnight and all made ready for next charter the following day.
When I reached the Caribbean I tried the same, but abandoned it. Guests were not interested in cooking and helming, just partying and wanting to be waited on and who could blame them.

[barnakiel]

There is no hard rule as so much depends on where the boat is and what it is doing. There are many sorts of boat costs and they all contribute to a different degree.

As many have mentioned already, think towards volume/weight scale more than a length based one.

From my experience working on various boats, I would expect from 50% to 100% overhead. (1.25^3) for 40 vs. 50 ft boats.

Give or take. Thinking of otherwise identical boats.

Cheers,
b.

[Lepke]

For about 40 years my boat was a power charter boat in the PNW and used in the inland passage to Alaska and trips to Mexico. From what I can gather, nobody got rich. Each new owner put money in the boat and sold the boat when the money ran out. When I bought it, it had a $20 grand dock bill and sat for 6 years.
I didn't buy it for charter work. Not the right personality.

Maintenance for a 10' difference is minimal if you're doing the work. A little more paint and probably the same number of zincs. If you're paying a yard, probably 40-50% more because you now have a big boat (in their eyes) and can afford it.
Thanks for putting it in feet for old guys.

[sec906]

Originally Posted by StuM

A boat is a three dimensional object so the volume etc increase as the cube of the length.

12 x 12 x 12 = 1728 m3
15 x 15 x 15 = 3375 m3

So a 15m boat is indeed twice the size of a 12 m boat.

15m beam? Must be a catamaran, and a very wide one at that! And 15m height would give you a very deep draft and maybe three stories above water?

With a more reasonable Length x Beam x Height:

12 x 3.5 x 2.5 = 105 m3
15 x 4.0 x 2.5 = 150 m3

That's roughly 42% more volume (floorspace, really), but actual dimensions could be very different depending on the boat.

[Lokiyawl]

Originally Posted by Skipper-Ingo

Hello from Germany,
Time has come. Got my live insurance money to buy a boat. I will retire within a feew months and will be a live-aboard until I kick the bucket. Before my wife is gonna join me (she has to work some longer), I want to make some money for about 3-4 years by offering cruises on my boat ("Kojen-Charter" berth-chartering"that's what we call it in Germany)
I have to make a decision what size of boat to buy.
For offering cruises, it would be good to have 4 cabins and a
49 feet boat. For my wife and me (and some friends once in a while), 3 cabins would be enough. 39 feet is OK.t

What I want to know is, what do you really think would be the difference in maintenance cost over the years for a boat of 39 feet (12 m) compared to one with 49 (15 m)? Simply described in percentage.

I read that the difference would be extreme, and that it would cost probably double for the bigger boat.
You should know that I have bought mooring rights in a port in Spain already, which allows me to place a boat there for up to 49 feet. So living aboard there would not make much of a difference there, whatever size. But what about the other costs. Maintainance, harbor fees, and so on?

I got good sailing experience even as a single hand sailor. Currently I own a boat together with some fellows, but we are going to split and sell the boat and I will buy another boat alone.

You would be helping me much in my decision about what size to get. If you give me a clew about what you think or experienced. Does a 49er cost that much more than a 39er?
Thanks for any advice and comments
Greetings from Germany.
Ingo

Ingo,

According to Beth Leonard. The costs of a boat approximately double with each 10' increment. I am sure that this is not exactly true in all cases but it does show the fact that the increase occurs a lot faster than most people think.. James

[StuM]

Originally Posted by sec906

15m beam? Must be a catamaran, and a very wide one at that! And 15m height would give you a very deep draft and maybe three stories above water?

With a more reasonable Length x Beam x Height:

12 x 3.5 x 2.5 = 105 m3
15 x 4.0 x 2.5 = 150 m3

That's roughly 42% more volume (floorspace, really), but actual dimensions could be very different depending on the boat.

Now you're talking about two totally different designs of boats.

12 x 3.5 Length/Beam Ratio = 3.43.
12 x 4.0 L/B = 3.

12 x 2.5 Length/Draft Ratio = 4.8
15 x 2.5 L/D = 6

If you scale up the same design, 25% increase in length WILL result in roughly twice the "overall size".

(And floorspace <> volume. Bigger boat normally means more headroom, bigger bilge, bigger keel/draft etc)

[sec906]

Originally Posted by StuM

Now you're talking about two totally different designs of boats.

12 x 3.5 Length/Beam Ratio = 3.43.
12 x 4.0 L/B = 3.

12 x 2.5 Length/Draft Ratio = 4.8
15 x 2.5 L/D = 6

If you scale up the same design, 25% increase in length WILL result in roughly twice the "overall size".

(And floorspace <> volume. Bigger boat normally means more headroom, bigger bilge, bigger keel/draft etc)

Disagree. You don't scale different dimensions the same rate. A 25% increase in length does not also result in a 25% increase in beam nor in draft. Not without a completely different design.

A boat is not a cube nor a sphere (see other posts).

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by StuM

Now you're talking about two totally different designs of boats.

12 x 3.5 Length/Beam Ratio = 3.43.
12 x 4.0 L/B = 3.

12 x 2.5 Length/Draft Ratio = 4.8
15 x 2.5 L/D = 6

If you scale up the same design, 25% increase in length WILL result in roughly twice the "overall size".

(And floorspace <> volume. Bigger boat normally means more headroom, bigger bilge, bigger keel/draft etc)

That a pretty good guide for area to be painted and size of deck equipment to be maintained. But, with twice the volume you get many comforts for living aboard and rough weather sailing. Also unless you fill the boat with heads you could end up with a similar quantity maintenance items in the way of pumps, valves pipes and electronics etc as in the smaller boat. Marina fees go up but usually only in proportion to length say 25% instead of double.

[Skipper-Ingo]

Thanks to everyone for there comments.
Even though some answers were contraditiory, I got a lot out of it.
This forum is absolutely great, and so are there members.
I appreciate the time everybody put in.
Ingo

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by StuM

Now you're talking about two totally different designs of boats.

12 x 3.5 Length/Beam Ratio = 3.43.
12 x 4.0 L/B = 3.

12 x 2.5 Length/Draft Ratio = 4.8
15 x 2.5 L/D = 6

If you scale up the same design, 25% increase in length WILL result in roughly twice the "overall size".

(And floorspace <> volume. Bigger boat normally means more headroom, bigger bilge, bigger keel/draft etc)

Not everything on the boat can be considered 3 dimensional when it comes to pricing for the bigger size.

Sails are a big cost of yachts and a 25% longer boat will have 50% more sail area. Whilst the need for a heavier cloth will increase the m2 cost of materials, economy of scale will mean that the labour costs of making the bigger sail will offset some of the higher cloth/thread costs. So the sails on a 25% bigger yacht only cost around 50% more, not 100%. I checked this earlier with a sailmaker who publishes prices for various yachts.

Some things will cost 50% more and some 100%. The true additional cost of a larger boat will probably be somewhere between.

On your cubic volume based approach to cost, then it would seem logical that a brand new 50 footer should cost double a 40 footer, but they don't.

[TheThunderbird]

1/3 of the items ihave on a 54' wouldn't fit in a 43'...

I had both btw

And StuM is right, powering to 3 the 50/40 fraction, AS THE SHAPE IS SIMILAR WHATEVER THE SIZE (mech.engineer)

Sailors were assumed to be humble people, in the old days (gone) :-)

[tdoster]

I have lived by a simple rule of thumb. Every 10 feet of boat length is double the cost after 30'

Buy the smallest boat you can comfortably live on as opposed to the largest boat you think you can afford.