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Old 15-05-2018, 04:57   #31
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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I'd for sure like to hear about Gibralter. We are considering it, but so far the Marina responses havn't been brilliant, and they can't confirm a spot.

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Sure. You basically have two choices in Gib. Marina Bay which is by Ocean Village, and the airport runway, or Queensway which is right next to the centre of town and a stone's throw from Main Street.

MB has more life, shops and noise in the immediate vicinity. If that is your sort of thing. You can watch your plane arrive and walk to the airport. Fuel is there. Personally, I would not want to be in the place. Not only because of the atmosphere but, critically, because it has fixed pontoons. Which I hate.


QQ is central, quiet, has 4 restaurants on the quay, and has floating pontoons. I have a passarelle but do not use it most of the time as one can jump on and off the stern. I have had Alita there for years and love it - and the staff. People treat you how you treat them.


The main problem with Gib is that there is no lift. You either have to go to El Rodeo on the other side of the bay or Alcaidesa if you need a lift. Do not use MH in the latter. Email me personally and I will tell you why. For other jobs there are good people but do not expect things to be done the day before yesterday.


Mention has been made of the fact that booking well in advance does not work. I think that is as a result of bitter experience in the office. If you want to stay for a year and are prepared to show the colour of your money then you may have a chance. There is a discount for an annual berth.


Personally, I love being in QQ and in Gib. The town in a marmite place and I love Marmite. There are a lot of nice people about. There is no currency issue if you are from the UK. There is no language difficulty if you speak English. Conversely, being accepted as a local is not going to happen even after decades. The RGYC is splendid but it is hard and expensive to become a member. Otherwise there is no yacht club.

Gib is a good place to sail. For a day trip there is an anchorage on the other side of the Bay at Getares. You can cross the Straights to Ceuta. Another good place but marina Hercules has become more expensive than it used to be. There are Spanish ports up the Costa. Starting with Sotogrande. A rip off. Estepona is much more fun and a town worth going to. Another place to consider leaving a boat. Benalmadena is convenient for Malaga airport but bucket and spade. One of my favourites is Marina del Este by Punta Mona. Not a long term stay but delightful. There is a new marina being built at Tangiers but I have not been as it was not yet open when I last enquired. Hence the annual Rally organised by Boatshed was again cancelled.

Sailing the Straights can be a challenge and one not to be taken lightly. Even once in the Bay you can get katabatic winds. The Straights Handbook by Thomas is a good guide if you can find a copy. He knows his stuff. Up the Costa things are usually a lot calmer and more predictable. Having said that, I recently rocketed up to Cartagena with a F9 (unforcast) astern. That was amazing. The same on the nose coming back some weeks later was not. Do not be conned by all those photos of bathing belles slipping into an azure sea. The Med can be an absolute bitch. Especially round places such as Cabo de Gata.


The above said, all is ultimately subjective. I never intended to end up in Gib for a decade an a half. My advice would be to try it. If you like it, then go and see Jacqui in QQ with a box of chocolates and a bunch of flowers and present them on bended knee. I am off to Genoa in June but I will be doing that to ensure that I can get back to Gib!

Added, some observations of what people have written above: -

Alcaidesa/La Linea. It is a new marina with good facilities but personally I would not even contemplate it. Never mind the fact that it is a long walk into Gib (La Linea, the Lines, is rightly reckoned to be the arse end of nowhere) it is a long walk even once you get to the marina. Conversely, if you hire a car from one of the firms by the border and want to spend time exploring Spain that way it is good as there is no border queue.


Almerimar. Agree with others. Useful, but a ghost town miles from anywhere worth visiting.


Cartagena. I mentioned before that there are two adjacent marinas. The one to go for is the one on the left as you enter. The Real Club. That has great facilities including a pool and upmarket restaurant. You get what you pay for.


Valencia. Marina Juan Carlos 1 would be my choice. Great access. Good value. However, it will also keep you fit unless you have transport as it is a long way from the littoral (biggest beach I have seen) never mind the town. There is a tram and then a train.

Lesson learned in Valencia, and of application elsewhere in Spain, is to go on line and get an account at Mercadona. https://info.mercadona.es/en/home The site is in a number of languages. Order the big shop on line. For €7 they delivered to the stern of the boat. Brilliant. The alternative would have been two taxi rides.
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Old 15-05-2018, 05:27   #32
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Originally Posted by Alita49DS View Post
Cartagena. I mentioned before that there are two adjacent marinas. The one to go for is the one on the left as you enter. The Real Club. That has great facilities including a pool and upmarket restaurant. You get what you pay for.
Except the liveaboard community (with their Sunday bbqs, tapas nights, walks, bar crawls etc..) is in YPC on the right. The one of the left is a Yacht Club rather than a dedicated marina.
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Old 15-05-2018, 05:52   #33
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

All great Info.

The EU VAT + Schengen dance is killing me though, on choosing a place to overwinter. (Either before, during or after causes a problem !).

Siciliy looks good, with access to Montenegro and Tunisia to deal with that.
Gibralter also.

We are heading out of the Med next year, because of it. (Would do this year if we could)


Regards

Mark.
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Old 15-05-2018, 12:17   #34
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Originally Posted by Catapault View Post
All great Info.

The EU VAT + Schengen dance is killing me though, on choosing a place to overwinter. (Either before, during or after causes a problem !).
Different dances, but very related.
If a country decides that you are a de-facto resident, then it means you are taxable.
(My rough understanding: In Spain that means more than half- year in Spain per year unless you proof otherwise, or main income source in Spain)

That means VAT if boat is nonVAT....but other taxes too!

So, be cautious and well advised. Most countries are canine about taxes no matter how harmful this policy can be in the long run
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Old 15-05-2018, 12:27   #35
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Different dances, but very related.
If a country decides that you are a de-facto resident, then it means you are taxable.
(My rough understanding: In Spain that means more than half- year in Spain per year unless you proof otherwise, or main income source in Spain)

That means VAT if boat is nonVAT....but other taxes too!

So, be cautious and well advised. Most countries are canine about taxes no matter how harmful this policy can be in the long run
Almost every country is . "If more than 183 days in 365, considered resident for tax purposes" (or some similar variant). And escaping it again is even harder once your 'in'. Then if it is one that taxes worldwide income (like Spain, or the USA), look out !. It is one of the nasty gotcha's yes, especially if you are still employed. A singer got done in Spain a few years back for millions if I recall.

Tax law is even more complex than immigration and visa law/rules...

Still the Schengen/VAT hopscotch game is getting harder, especially if they
consistently enforce the 6 months in 12 for the Skipper anywhere in the Customs Union rule on the 18Mo VAT TI. I was advised in Cyprus that direction has come out to enforce it.

Time to either go west, or pay up.

Regards

Mark.
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Old 15-05-2018, 12:29   #36
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

Related to this, Tunisia.

Bit concerned my 'wintering in Tunisia' thread got NO comments, good or bad from folks that have been there recently. Dosn't bode well for it being viable !. (I consider recent experience on these forums, quite valuable).

More reading to do.

Mark.
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Old 16-05-2018, 00:53   #37
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Originally Posted by Catapault View Post
Related to this, Tunisia.

Bit concerned my 'wintering in Tunisia' thread got NO comments, good or bad from folks that have been there recently. Dosn't bode well for it being viable !. (I consider recent experience on these forums, quite valuable).

More reading to do.

Mark.
Sorry Mark but I hadn't seen the Tunisia thread. Personally, I am not a fan of North Africa. I'm currently 100nm north of Tripoli, Libya and have worked Tunisia, Egypt extensively too. I know I see a different side to a country from what a tourist sees but nothing makes me want to take the boat and Hayley there. There are frequent refugee boats leaving Libya for Italy at the moment with up to 1,000 people on board a small vessel. This is not a few people at a time trying to find a better life, this is organised crime from very high up with desperate passengers paying $000's to put their lives at risk.

I'm not saying Tunisia might not be a worthwhile visit short term to get a stamp, but 'wintering' in North Africa is most definitely not for me.
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Old 16-05-2018, 01:32   #38
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapault View Post
All great Info.

The EU VAT + Schengen dance is killing me though, on choosing a place to overwinter. (Either before, during or after causes a problem !).

Siciliy looks good, with access to Montenegro and Tunisia to deal with that.
Gibralter also.

We are heading out of the Med next year, because of it. (Would do this year if we could)


Regards

Mark.
We are planning to only spend 18 months in Europe and to head across the Atlantic in Jan 2020 to continue on with our trip. This takes care of our VAT issue but I hadn't realised the boat can't spend more than 6 months in Spain so I guess we will have to winter in Cartegena and then head back down to Gib before we do the Balearics. It sure is a dance, we are lucky we don't have to worry about Schengen.
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Old 16-05-2018, 05:11   #39
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Originally Posted by davedindubai View Post
We are planning to only spend 18 months in Europe and to head across the Atlantic in Jan 2020 to continue on with our trip. This takes care of our VAT issue but I hadn't realised the boat can't spend more than 6 months in Spain so I guess we will have to winter in Cartegena and then head back down to Gib before we do the Balearics. It sure is a dance, we are lucky we don't have to worry about Schengen.
Sadly, it doesn't totaly take care of the VAT Issue, there are other complications to do with who's onboard and for how long.

Prob saying something you already know, but strongly suggest checking it out in detail. ITs a pain in the neck, especially if they enforce that part of the regs as has been promised.

Regards

Mark.
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Old 16-05-2018, 08:11   #40
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Originally Posted by davedindubai View Post
We are planning to only spend 18 months in Europe and to head across the Atlantic in Jan 2020 to continue on with our trip. This takes care of our VAT issue but I hadn't realised the boat can't spend more than 6 months in Spain so I guess we will have to winter in Cartegena and then head back down to Gib before we do the Balearics. It sure is a dance, we are lucky we don't have to worry about Schengen.
The boat can stay longer then 6 month, why not?, and depending on your passports maybe you too. But there are, as every where in the world, rules you have to apply to....

So much wrong information about Schengen and the EU is taken as true on CF. Google for the EU & Schengen legislation and forget all the mis-info found in this topic..

There is a reason why i (Dutch Passport holder) live partly in The Netherlands, Spain and Brazil..!

My 2 Centavos
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Old 16-05-2018, 11:00   #41
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

Hey Tricolor,
you can't tease us with this... care to elaborate? I'm sure there's lots I don't know about this issue because until very recently we had no plan to return to EU.

I am British passport holder but non resident in UK and until we moved onto the boat were resident in Dubai. Boat is registered in UK and as I'm non resident have not paid VAT. Our plan is to sail around the world and end up back in Dubai.

Any info you have is most welcome.
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Old 16-05-2018, 11:20   #42
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Originally Posted by davedindubai View Post
Hey Tricolor,
you can't tease us with this... care to elaborate? I'm sure there's lots I don't know about this issue because until very recently we had no plan to return to EU.

I am British passport holder but non resident in UK and until we moved onto the boat were resident in Dubai. Boat is registered in UK and as I'm non resident have not paid VAT. Our plan is to sail around the world and end up back in Dubai.

Any info you have is most welcome.
as a non res you should get 18 months,but you have to renew your temp import every 6 months with customs.

though i suspect as a uk citizen things might get a bit hot in the next year due to brexit
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Old 16-05-2018, 14:34   #43
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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Originally Posted by davedindubai View Post
Hey Tricolor,
you can't tease us with this... care to elaborate? I'm sure there's lots I don't know about this issue because until very recently we had no plan to return to EU.

I am British passport holder but non resident in UK and until we moved onto the boat were resident in Dubai. Boat is registered in UK and as I'm non resident have not paid VAT. Our plan is to sail around the world and end up back in Dubai.

Any info you have is most welcome.
I donīt want to tease anyone but every ones situation is different. Again here you will not find your answers as we donīt know, and i donīt want to know, all your ins and outs. I can only speak for me, i went to a Spanish lawyer for advice and up till now this advice was golden. For the maritime law and tax matters you can try to contact this group. Maybe they can help you or redirect you. (Malaga area)

Perez Legal Group Property, Law, Tax & Insurance Services
Avda. Ricardo Soriano nš 1-3š A
29601 Marbella (Malaga) Spain
Tel : +34 952 833 169


I have had no prior contact with them, just found them on google....
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Old 16-05-2018, 17:53   #44
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

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as a non res you should get 18 months,but you have to renew your temp import every 6 months with customs.

though i suspect as a uk citizen things might get a bit hot in the next year due to brexit
I respect you and your doings very much, but again YOU DONīT have the answers for them... they need a solid LEGAL advice... I think there is more possible then some think, BUT FIND LEGAL ADVICE....
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Old 21-05-2018, 15:10   #45
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Re: BEST marina in the Med?

Go to the library or bookshop and get a copy of Ian & Andrea Treleavens book called Letters From The Med. It will give details of every marina and anchorage from one end to the other alongwith fabulous photographs.
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