Bay Area resident looking to move aboard in September

[iannitram]

Hello all.

I among the thousands with close to no experience who, for some reason, can't purge themselves of the dream of one day living on the water. I moved to the Bay Area last year and have been planning on pursuing it once my apartment lease was up this coming September.

To that end I've been pursuing some ASA certifications to try and pickup some experience on the water. I cleared the keelboat cert but have reached a point where I just need sail time to gain experience before going for the coastal cert. Problem is, I'm in a city where I don't know anybody and lack the financial resources to just take private lessons.

Anyway with September approaching I've started combing Craigslist and have found sporadic listings for people who are leasing their boats as liveaboards. I'm thinking of something between 25-30 feet and a slip in Sausalito or Alameda. Leasing seems to be an opportunity to "try" the life on for size without taking on the complete liability. In addition to that (depending on the terms of the lease) and have a boat to gain that experience with on the water. Of course I intend to completely disclose my level of experience to the owner to establish boundaries that are equitable to us both.

Anyway with rental between 450-850 and 500 a month slip fee I'd STILL be saving at least 500 a month on rent and get a chance at this adventure I can't seem to purge my brain of.

That's the plan as of right now. I wanted to put it out there for everyone here to get feedback. Totally crazy? Stupid? Good idea? Bad idea? Tips? Advice? High fives? August 1st I'll be back in town and need to plan out a roadmap of sorts to get this done. Go see Marinas. Etc.

[Hudson Force]

It's interesting to hear of listings where people are leasing boats as liveaboards and allowing their tenants to sail the boats. Among the liveaboards that I have known on the east coast of the US, I've only come across one person renting liveaboard space and that was one cabin and shared galley within a houseboat that never moved. I don't doubt the possibility, but it seems like a difficult find. On the other hand, within the past year, I've known two liveaboards who purchased older 25' to 30' boats that were sound, but required some cosmetic repair. Each of these boats were purchased near $2,500. I'm sure that your location would have a great effect on these opportunities for boats, slips and costs.

[iannitram]

I've seen some for 2500 but, lacking a good baseline of knowledge, I am TERRIFIED of getting something with major issues and then having no way to get rid of it other than sailing (or rowing) it to the middle of the bay with dynamite. But I'm definitely not ruling that out as a possibility.

[SailPenelope]

For sailing experience in the bay area - Latitude 38 crew list.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

It's interesting to hear of listings where people are leasing boats as liveaboards and allowing their tenants to sail the boats.

They are few and far in between and I've never seen an ad for one that specified that use of the boat (for anything other than a cheap place to live) was included.

[Fitsthebill]

The first thing that comes to mind w/ live-aboards is cranky old divorcees who thought their life would fit on the boat. Second is this idea of solving a housing problem with a boating one. I put alot into my boat and excuse me if I do not care for a landlover who might set the harbor ablaze by not understanding the nature of boats. Most harbors have rules about seaworthiness and may ask someone take their boat out and demonstrate it. If harbors become low end housing consider how valuable your equipment is on a boat and how safe that makes you feel. I am hardly saying the place is not more safe with them who stay on through the night but I have seen the pussy-footing around by the law with dangerous individuals who wander the docks like the walking dead.
There needs to be some screening or a consensus as to who has access and at what times of the day or night. Crime is is not static, it is going up like crazy. I feel good with live a boards there to protect the boat, more than some vacant at night scenario but there needs to be some curtailing of the ghetto types who clutter their boats and our docks while having no clue how to drive them. Many don't know what "ship shape" even means.
Boats are all about trust because any one of them are one cleat away from disaster and they don't really lock up all that good. It worked in the past but times are changing and people are growing more desperate and whack all the time.

[roverhi]

If you can find the opportunity, it's a good way to sample the life without a major infusion of your cash. The problem is the condition of the boat and being able to use it. Insurance is definitely an issue as you'd have to be a named insured just in case something happened while you were driving. If the insurance company is going to consider that a charter, the insurance will be pricey. It's doubtful that any owner would let you take the boat out on your own. Too many ways for the boat to disappear and/or end up as salvage. As others have said, there is the issue of the owner using the boat for daysailing. Will he let you go along on the sails, what kind of notice will he give you when he wants to take the boat out, etc.

The boats that I have seen that were rented were in poor condition and usually, if a sailboat, missing small things like sails, boom, winches, and an auxillary engine. That is something that won't endear the boat to the others in the marina and result in complaints that may get you busted by the Marina Management. I looked at a Tartan 27 that was advertised for sale a few years back. Boat was a POS the would have taken $1,000's to get into a condition to sail and 5 figures to put into a condition I'd consider minimal to own. I made him an offer of a $500 thinking he'd be happy to get the derelict off his hands. He laughed at the offer. Said he was renting the boat for $500 a month which made it worth at least $5,000 because of the income. A large difference in value between a Sailboat vice floating ghetto rental. The condition of the boat reflected the condition of the marina, btw.

FYI. San Francisco Bay Marinas have a 10% live aboard occupancy limit. If the owner doesn't have a live aboard slip, you'll be playing sneak aboard. That is not fun, btdt. The other liveaboards will be watching you. Miss a step, leave something on the dock, get seen too often leaving the boat during the week, having your car in the parking area constantly, could all bring you to grief. Be sure that the boat is in a liveaboard slip before you sell you worldly possessions to move aboard.

The liveaboard limit is also a problem for you if you like the lifestyle and decide to get your own boat. Convenient, nice weather areas all are at limit for live aboard permits. You'll have to get very lucky to get a slip in Alameda and probably Sausalito and/or wait years for a slip to turn up. There may be opportunities in less desirable areas, read high crime, long commute, cold foggy weather, and/or very windy.

If you're flexible and moving about is no big thing for you, by all means sample the life. Way better than buying a boat and finding that you can't find a marina and/or don't like the life.

[iannitram]

Hmm...thanks for the feedback everyone. Good tips. I have called two listings so far and both mentioned Bay sailing is fine but they didn't want it taken beyond the bridge. But maybe given the concerns about condition I should look at picking up my own for 3000 with issues I can be definitively aware of though inspection. I'll definitely need to mull it over.

[snort]

If you need a sailing fix, you have two good "cheap" options in the Bay area. One is Lake Merritt in Oakland for sailing dinghies and the other is in Berkeley, where they have the Cal Sailing Club.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by iannitram

......................, I am TERRIFIED of getting something with major issues ..................

You must eventually overcome this terror if you plan to be the owner of a used boat. Maybe this should be your goal instead of finding someone else's boat to rent. Your best resource would be a support crew. Through marinas, boating groups or clubs, online forums (like right here) or friends with similar goals; you need to locate some knowlegeable people who can walk you thrugh some boats and point out what are the positives and negatives. Actually, it's not that tough! First, you step aboard and notice it it stinks below from rain leaks and rot. There are some intuitive clues,- Is the engine a rusted ball of crusty metal parts? Do the structural parts sag, stick, dip, warp and flake? Can the owner raise the sails and take out functionally cruising away from the dock? Do the electrical devices light up when you turn them on? Does the space accomodate your needs? Once your prospective boat passes this priliminary test; then, bring on your knowledgeable friend or even pay for a survey.

[iannitram]

Hmm...might go back to Oakland where I took some lessons and see if they're willing to chat. Good call. Thanks.

[snort]

Capt. Force always has good advice, and the above fits right into the usual.
Just go visit boats for sale, arm yourself with Don Casey's book on inspecting older boats, and get experience at amateur surveying. If you can go along with someone more knowledgeable, even better.
Another thing, the Berkeley Marina has a lien sale at least once or twice a year. Unfortunately, these boats are usually so thoroughly trashed that one glance from 50 yards away tells you all you need to know. Still, it's good experience to see what can happen to neglected boats.

[Pblais]

You people have the wrong BAY! Chesapeake Bay is WAY cheaper by several times. Aside from parts of new England NO place is more expensive and the water is cold and there is no place to overnight!

[snort]

Costwise, it's probably even worse in SoCal.
At any rate, I was looking at youtube and they had this regarding Bay Area liveaboards:

LIVE ABOARD BOATS - YouTube

[I.Grind]

Nelson's in Alameda went out of business/was shut down last May. There is an auction coming up soon of pretty much all the boats that couldn't get out before the gates were padlocked. If you don't mind a fixer upper, you should go check it out. Nothing like a no reserve boat auction. 100's to choose from.