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Old 19-05-2013, 15:55   #46
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Re: at my wits end

Take your lumps and get out. "Sell your boat...Save your family".
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Old 19-05-2013, 16:17   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatsail

Hey there Dan!, Jimmy here.

Chopper, if you take Dan up on this offer, you won't regret it! My wife and I met Dan and his girlfriend this past summer in Maryland.

I had an "incident" that put my outboard underwater. Funny story for another day, plus, I hated that engine. I was going to take it to a small motor repair shop and get it working. It was Dan's advice that got me thinking and I took it home, read, watched youtube and took that blasted motor appart. Now, I feel pretty confident with anything that I have to do to that engine. Had it not been for his advice, I would still have the knowlege that I had before it took the dunk. Long story short, that was not much engine knowledge.

Chopper, I'm not the most knowledgeable person on boats, but always learning. Look at some of the recent threads I have posted. asking questions about paint, kiwigrip, gimballing. Each time I do a job, it prepares me for the next job with confidence and knowledge.

Dan, we got pushed back a year. Were planning on leaving in Oct when you left, but were way behind in work on the boat. It's out right now and working hard to get it done. Date for back in the water is prior to June 9th (have to have the boat at an event.
Just when I gave up on people!
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:38   #48
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Re: at my wits end

We are back on the boat. Going to work on the engine and try to find the problem. If all goes as planned Dan is meeting us here next week. I've never been one to give up on anything worth while and my family certainly is. For those of you who know marine diesels, she has a perkins 4-108. I got her started on shore power for about an hour at idle a month ago. The next morning I started her, unplugged, untied and headed up the icw. 20 minutes later she died again and hasn't been heard from since. I suspect either a leak letting air into the system, batteries, or alternator. Right before she dies she loses power rapidly. Any ideas?
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:50   #49
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Re: at my wits end

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper1973 View Post
We are back on the boat. Going to work on the engine and try to find the problem. If all goes as planned Dan is meeting us here next week. I've never been one to give up on anything worth while and my family certainly is. For those of you who know marine diesels, she has a perkins 4-108. I got her started on shore power for about an hour at idle a month ago. The next morning I started her, unplugged, untied and headed up the icw. 20 minutes later she died again and hasn't been heard from since. I suspect either a leak letting air into the system, batteries, or alternator. Right before she dies she loses power rapidly. Any ideas?
Air. Get a jerrycan with clean diesel and put both feed and return hoses straight from the engine in it (no primary filter), prime and test. Add a squeeze bulb like for an outboard tank if priming gives trouble. If it still fails suspect engine mounted filter and lift pump (copper washers on banjo fittings etc.) If it does run well, try to add the primary filter into the loop etc.

What also helps is using a cheap piece of transparent hose so that you can see any air getting in.

good luck!
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Old 19-05-2013, 18:52   #50
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Do you have a volt meter? Check the voltage on the battery. It should be 13.2. CHarge it, start the engine and check it periodically to see if it is being charged. Find someone in the boatyard who knows more than you.
Good luck!
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Old 19-05-2013, 20:34   #51
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pirate Re: at my wits end

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper1973 View Post
We are back on the boat. Going to work on the engine and try to find the problem. If all goes as planned Dan is meeting us here next week.
Way cool. I picked Dan's girlfriend up from the airport yesterday and she was hopeful about going on the trip. I can't even spell deisel but they seem simple enough. As Jedi said, air is doubtless the problem and or dirty filters. Once the engine is running, the electrical system doesn't matter.
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Old 19-05-2013, 21:19   #52
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Re: at my wits end

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper1973 View Post
We are back on the boat. Going to work on the engine and try to find the problem. If all goes as planned Dan is meeting us here next week. I've never been one to give up on anything worth while and my family certainly is. For those of you who know marine diesels, she has a perkins 4-108. I got her started on shore power for about an hour at idle a month ago. The next morning I started her, unplugged, untied and headed up the icw. 20 minutes later she died again and hasn't been heard from since. I suspect either a leak letting air into the system, batteries, or alternator. Right before she dies she loses power rapidly. Any ideas?
Electric power, whether batteries or alternator will not effect a 4-108. Once it's cranked and running the engine will need no electric power at all unless it has an electric fuel solenoid which I doubt in that boat. Do you have a lever or pull handle that is used to shut off the engine?
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Old 19-05-2013, 21:20   #53
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Re: at my wits end

Chopper, I'm sure you will pull through. Once you and Dan have sorted the immediate crisis there will be other stuff. Money makes a difference, so get the best job you can. When not dealing with emergencies, go for simple but good quality when fixing stuff. Prioritize, but fix once only.

For any folks about to buy I'll share a reflection a bit more than 12 months after purchase. I bought just about the cheapest one of my model on the market. Online I drooled over one, same model, that was almost double the price but with a lot of recent work done. The reflection? At this point I would have been a long way in front had I bought the seemingly high-priced one! Ok, I've gone further on my repairs & refit and now have newer/simpler systems than the other one, but it has cost plenty.

I'd recommend to people that what ever their boat-budget is, only spend half on the initial purchase. Sure, you might have a lot of the other half left over if you are lucky. That's not a problem. In any event, you get a boat in good condition to really enjoy that doesn't create financial heartburn.
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Old 19-05-2013, 21:44   #54
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Re: at my wits end

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Air. Get a jerrycan with clean diesel and put both feed and return hoses straight from the engine in it (no primary filter), prime and test. Add a squeeze bulb like for an outboard tank if priming gives trouble. If it still fails suspect engine mounted filter and lift pump (copper washers on banjo fittings etc.) If it does run well, try to add the primary filter into the loop etc.


good luck!
^^^ As Above ^^^

It's foolproof, unless you are a super class fool.

As stated, alternator output is not relevant to running the engine (unless it has a stop solenoid which requires power to allow the engine to fuel) but that I very much doubt.
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Old 20-05-2013, 10:07   #55
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Re: at my wits end

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper1973 View Post
We are back on the boat. Going to work on the engine and try to find the problem. If all goes as planned Dan is meeting us here next week. I've never been one to give up on anything worth while and my family certainly is. For those of you who know marine diesels, she has a perkins 4-108. I got her started on shore power for about an hour at idle a month ago. The next morning I started her, unplugged, untied and headed up the icw. 20 minutes later she died again and hasn't been heard from since. I suspect either a leak letting air into the system, batteries, or alternator. Right before she dies she loses power rapidly. Any ideas?
Cool! That's the key, just work on the most important thing first. Get everything about the engine trouble free so you can move where you want. Fuel is often a culprit. Get that system cleaned up and good and make sure the cooling is working. BTW, someone mentioned measuring your battery voltage...not sure why....but it will only be ~12.6 not 13.2 after sitting awhile.
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Old 20-05-2013, 18:30   #56
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Re: at my wits end

From looking at the posts above and your descriptions,- running for a term before dying, I can't help but think that your problem is fuel supply. I would suggest that you start at the Raycor fuel separators to make sure you are not overwhelmed with water or debris in the fuel; however this is unlikely since you have a good running for a term. Assuming that your filters have been replaced and they are allowing good flow of fuel; I would next check the pick up tubes comming out of the tank. These can normally be easily removed as they are threaded into the top of the tank. Often there are one-way valves, maybe ball valves, at the top of these tubes that can stop functioning properly and eventually block the flow of fuel. In most cases they are not needed and they can be drilled out or removed to cure the problem. I had this same condition with my 1973 Morgan that allowed me to run well for nearly an hour at fairly low rpms before "sudden death". I could wait for a time and after the build up of back pressure at the valve had equilibrated; then, the engine would give me another good hour. Drilling out the one-way ball valves at the top of the fuel tank pick-up tubes was a total cure for me. Good luck!
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Old 20-05-2013, 20:57   #57
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Re: at my wits end

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... I had this same condition with my 1973 Morgan that allowed me to run well for nearly an hour at fairly low rpms before "sudden death". I could wait for a time and after the build up of back pressure at the valve had equilibrated; then, the engine would give me another good hour. Drilling out the one-way ball valves at the top of the fuel tank pick-up tubes was a total cure for me. Good luck!

Can you imagine paying a yard to find this?
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:49   #58
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Re: At My Wits End

One more idea or possibility. Your problem almost sounds just like a prank some guys would play on people while I was growing up... putting balls of toilet paper into the gas tank of a car. The car would run for a while until the fuel pick up line would clog, then after some time went by and the TP settled down and cleared the end of the pick up... the car would start up and run again for a while. The bits were large enough so that they wouldn't make it up to the filter. Do you possilbly have some big chunks of crud moving around in the bottom of your fuel tank to clog the pick up line?
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:52   #59
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Re: At My Wits End

Dismayed by the advice to "give up" and delighted by people like Dan who are willing to lend a hand and help out.

Be safe - but don't quit. Don't ever quit.
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Old 21-05-2013, 00:31   #60
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Re: At My Wits End

I had a similar experience when motoring a 31' sailboat 650 mi from Maryland to Toronto. I had a very hard time getting good service. It's confounding to own a boat that's been left to disrepair because the state of it is not you're fault, but it's your responsibility now. It's in your lap. In my case, I was certainly wiling to spend the money for a solid rebuild, but I found the whole East coast terrible for Diesel service on my boat. No understanding of the small diesel engine at all.

The fix which finally got my boat out of the doldrums was to supply the yanmar with diesel directly from a clean new dingy fuel cel. My old Fuel tank is full of algae and the racor filters are f'd. They all need to be fished out and serviced and rebuilt. But getting clean fuel to the engine and removing the restrictive filters has made all the difference. I've also had a lot of other parts replaced, including the exhaust mixing elbow, starter, belts, impeller, 2x batts, solar chargers etc. etc.

I also ripped some sails in the first few months of sailing my boat. I'm shying away from buying big genoa sails for $2k. While I get started in sailing, teach my wife and kids and friends to have fun, I am using $100 sails found online locally. My headsail is a hanked on sail from a much smaller boat, but I really enjoy that sail because it does not overpower the helm and I don't care if it rips, but it it won't rip, it's extremely tough.

I had a breakdown in the fall (before all that service) simple thing really, I was heeled over taking advantage of some wind, but my fuel tank was low, so air got into the lines and it sputtered out. In trying to re-start, I used up whatever life was left in the starter and melted it to ****. No go. So I had to beat back into TO harbour for 4 hours in Zero degree 40 knot winds. And I can tell you quite assuredly that this $100 jib along with my main saved me from being blown out across the lake. I was able to beat all the way into the harbour and get a 100 yard assist from a police RIB to a dock where I called in the mechanic.

So look for a compliment of smaller discarded sails, they work beautifully and are actually really fun to use. And if the wind picks up, you're underway with a good storm sail up. I really hope someone sorts you out in this way because all sailboats must fly canvas.

I've also become incredibly serous about radio since these experiences. I used to think it was kind of silly but now I'm a fanatic, learning all I can about it. So crucial to living safely out there.

Good luck, I hope we cross paths. Your best days are ahead.
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