Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by markpierce

This is a fact: I anchor overnight on an average of once a year. Last time (earlier this month) was two nights on a flooded Delta "island."

I'm more of a marina-to-marina, eat-at-a-restaurant kind of guy.

Me thinks the gauntlet has been thrown down...

[weavis]

wrong:


************************************************** *********

And therin lies the reason for the antipathy created in your conversations with others. You have created in your mind an image of being a professional cruiser and one in which you can solve the worlds problems by your 25 years as a cruiser and are not afraid to inform everyone of your status.

Nobody can take away the years you spent at a tiller. It is what you chose to do, and I for one applaud it.

However.

You present yourself in argumentation with a false humility. Even your name of Wrong, and then you proceed to right the whole boating world with your experience in a dogmatic way, non remitting and with continued prejudice against posters who disagree with you.

Im a doctor. It scares me sometimes the responsibilty of it. So much so that I and colleagues in our own time spend hours looking into new treatments and studying drugs and discard combinations of drugs based on the manufacturers own warnings. We look at certain illnesses and compare what used to be the treatment with the results with what is done today. When I see that old treatments yielded a 36% success rate, and new treatments yield an 85% success rate, I get the privilege of making the observed decision that the 25 year 'experienced' man could have changed his methodology 10 years ago but chose not to keep up with the times.

Secondly, I dont expect strangers to take my medical advice without a second or third opinion. Sometimes I push patients to talk with other consultants or I will, with their permission arrange a telephone or video call, in their presence to a specialist, and see what they have to offer. Just because I have a certain experience, it is not all encompassing or the total knowledge, it is just MY experience and one way of doing things.

There is a huge difference in presenting "facts" and presenting opinion. Even 'facts' if not researched are worse than an opinion because you are staking your actions and reputation on someone elses mal observation.

The final thing on the doctor theme. If I am sure of something, with facts and test results and disease knowledge and prognosis, I will present it to you as I have it. The choice of what to do is NOT MY DECISION. I have not given you an opinion, just the facts. If you choose to ignore the FACTS and my considered choice of treatment, I am not offended. I am not resentful. Time will bear out the reality of the diagnosis, and you can bet that I will also recommend to the patient other avenues to explore. I dont sit back and say, I have 30 years of experience, do what I say.

You consider yourself a cruiser. You consider yourself a man of the world. You offer opinions like we all do. Your not a politician or a government official and yet you have the answer to the Californian issue in the bay.

So much so that you doggedly hung in there raising the matter time and time again and in the process fell out with someone who is also a current cruiser who offers in the main sound researched advice on mechanical matters, because she is a qualified engineer.

Its an opinion you offer, not a fact.

To round off the whole matter, I have had a pilots licence for 42 years. I have a total of 3732 hours flying time. I dont consider it makes me a "Pilot" because it is not my vocation or employment. Its what I do for fun. My 16 hours of flight for last year were mainly catching up on safety practices and a recertification for an aircraft.

If I offer an opinion that is not researched or based on factual reality or even if it makes not a scrap of difference to the situation because Im not able to change it...... I will in due course have to hold my hand up and shout "Im an ARSE!!"

So I tend to make huge allowances for others because the reality is we are all ARSES, and sadly some other ARSE will be correct at some point and I will be wrong, and I have to swallow the reality that I was the bigger arse.

Other people will make the judgement as to whether Im a doctor of worth, My claiming to be a 30 year veteran means squat. It just means I did it.

Other people will make the judgement whether or not Im a good pilot or not, not that I have had a licence for 42 years from being a kid.

Other people will judge whether I am a good cruiser or not, actually the other day I got pulled up for a bad habit I have and got roundly ridiculed when it backfired on me........I had to put my hand up and say Im an ARSE! because my years of sailing counted for squat.

You dont get a get out of jail card here on CF for a claim you make. You get it for approval from your peers, and I dont include myself in that crowd because your 25 years of living and sailing and 2 circs, as you constantly tell us, are more than I can even dream of. But it counts for nothing if you dont have respect and need to demand it or point it out constantly.

I would much rather 'learn' from your experience. Just state it as it happened and stop beating up on us lesser mortals, some of whom are not as less as you think. (Except for me because I do lack experience)

On another note, I truly am sorry that your health is not as good as it could be. I mean that sincerely and with empathy. It will not stop me being an ARSE over your ARSENESS at times, but it will allow me to offer a genuine human offer of whatever help you need in terms of information or if I can suggest something for your consideration, please just PM me in confidence. Disagreements mean nothing where health is a concern. Id like to see you better so we can disagree some more without me feeling guilty over it.

And I feel an ARSE for writing this but hey.. I hold my hand up and admit it.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

.................

Cruisers move about with their boats and do not return to their same dock or mooring after only daysails.
Liveaboards make use of their vessel as their home without a house or apartment ashore.
.........................

There are no credentials, certifications, or documents to identify anyone as a liveaboard or a cruiser. It makes no difference if you've completed 2 or 27 half circumnavigations; lived on the boat for 3 days or 25 years. Actually, few people have any reason to be impressed or care. I've lived aboard a very long time. It's not an achievement, honor, challenge or credit. It's just the way that my wife and I have chosen to spend our lives.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by weavis

wrong:


************************************************** *********

And therin lies the reason for the antipathy created in your conversations with others. You have created in your mind an image of being a professional cruiser and one in which you can solve the worlds problems by your 25 years as a cruiser and are not afraid to inform everyone of your status.

Nobody can take away the years you spent at a tiller. It is what you chose to do, and I for one applaud it.

However.

You present yourself in argumentation with a false humility. Even your name of Wrong, and then you proceed to right the whole boating world with your experience in a dogmatic way, non remitting and with continued prejudice against posters who disagree with you.

Im a doctor. It scares me sometimes the responsibilty of it. So much so that I and colleagues in our own time spend hours looking into new treatments and studying drugs and discard combinations of drugs based on the manufacturers own warnings. We look at certain illnesses and compare what used to be the treatment with the results with what is done today. When I see that old treatments yielded a 36% success rate, and new treatments yield an 85% success rate, I get the privilege of making the observed decision that the 25 year 'experienced' man could have changed his methodology 10 years ago but chose not to keep up with the times.

Secondly, I dont expect strangers to take my medical advice without a second or third opinion. Sometimes I push patients to talk with other consultants or I will, with their permission arrange a telephone or video call, in their presence to a specialist, and see what they have to offer. Just because I have a certain experience, it is not all encompassing or the total knowledge, it is just MY experience and one way of doing things.

There is a huge difference in presenting "facts" and presenting opinion. Even 'facts' if not researched are worse than an opinion because you are staking your actions and reputation on someone elses mal observation.

The final thing on the doctor theme. If I am sure of something, with facts and test results and disease knowledge and prognosis, I will present it to you as I have it. The choice of what to do is NOT MY DECISION. I have not given you an opinion, just the facts. If you choose to ignore the FACTS and my considered choice of treatment, I am not offended. I am not resentful. Time will bear out the reality of the diagnosis, and you can bet that I will also recommend to the patient other avenues to explore. I dont sit back and say, I have 30 years of experience, do what I say.

You consider yourself a cruiser. You consider yourself a man of the world. You offer opinions like we all do. Your not a politician or a government official and yet you have the answer to the Californian issue in the bay.

So much so that you doggedly hung in there raising the matter time and time again and in the process fell out with someone who is also a current cruiser who offers in the main sound researched advice on mechanical matters, because she is a qualified engineer.

Its an opinion you offer, not a fact.

To round off the whole matter, I have had a pilots licence for 42 years. I have a total of 3732 hours flying time. I dont consider it makes me a "Pilot" because it is not my vocation or employment. Its what I do for fun. My 16 hours of flight for last year were mainly catching up on safety practices and a recertification for an aircraft.

If I offer an opinion that is not researched or based on factual reality or even if it makes not a scrap of difference to the situation because Im not able to change it...... I will in due course have to hold my hand up and shout "Im an ARSE!!"

So I tend to make huge allowances for others because the reality is we are all ARSES, and sadly some other ARSE will be correct at some point and I will be wrong, and I have to swallow the reality that I was the bigger arse.

Other people will make the judgement as to whether Im a doctor of worth, My claiming to be a 30 year veteran means squat. It just means I did it.

Other people will make the judgement whether or not Im a good pilot or not, not that I have had a licence for 42 years from being a kid.

Other people will judge whether I am a good cruiser or not, actually the other day I got pulled up for a bad habit I have and got roundly ridiculed when it backfired on me........I had to put my hand up and say Im an ARSE! because my years of sailing counted for squat.

You dont get a get out of jail card here on CF for a claim you make. You get it for approval from your peers, and I dont include myself in that crowd because your 25 years of living and sailing and 2 circs, as you constantly tell us, are more than I can even dream of. But it counts for nothing if you dont have respect and need to demand it or point it out constantly.

I would much rather 'learn' from your experience. Just state it as it happened and stop beating up on us lesser mortals, some of whom are not as less as you think. (Except for me because I do lack experience)

On another note, I truly am sorry that your health is not as good as it could be. I mean that sincerely and with empathy. It will not stop me being an ARSE over your ARSENESS at times, but it will allow me to offer a genuine human offer of whatever help you need in terms of information or if I can suggest something for your consideration, please just PM me in confidence. Disagreements mean nothing where health is a concern. Id like to see you better so we can disagree some more without me feeling guilty over it.

And I feel an ARSE for writing this but hey.. I hold my hand up and admit it.

One you forgot. You're a long winded arse who has the propensity to take a general discussion and devolve it to the level of a personal affront.

'Less I forget you're a braggart too.

When it's appropriate, I like anyone else on this forum can reveal their experience, whether a doctor, pilot, engineer, cruiser or dog catcher.

And you are not the final sayer of what is or is not appropriate, repeated too often or in you're judgement condescending of others. By the way, if you want to see something condescending, read your last diatribe .

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

There are no credentials, certifications, or documents to identify anyone as a liveaboard or a cruiser. It makes no difference if you've completed 2 or 27 half circumnavigations; lived on the boat for 3 days or 25 years. Actually, few people have any reason to be impressed or care. I've lived aboard a very long time. It's not an achievement, honor, challenge or credit. It's just the way that my wife and I have chosen to spend our lives.

You are of course only speaking for yourself, right?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by markpierce

This is a fact: I anchor overnight on an average of once a year. Last time (earlier this month) was two nights on a flooded Delta "island."





I'm more of a marina-to-marina, eat-at-a-restaurant kind of guy.

Mark, I am impressed that you have the anchor dayshape on the bow. Nice!. Only the second one I've seen on the bay and delta. I really need to get some cardboard and black paint and make one.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Wrong

One you forgot. You're a long winded arse who has the propensity to take a general discussion and devolve it to the level of a personal affront.

'Less I forget you're a braggart too.

When it's appropriate, I like anyone else on this forum can reveal their experience, whether a doctor, pilot, engineer, cruiser or dog catcher.

And you are not the final sayer of what is or is not appropriate, repeated too often or in you're judgement condescending of others. By the way, if you want to see something condescending, read your last diatribe .

Kewl. Im an Arse.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by weavis

Kewl. Im an Arse.

Don't forget "and a braggart", which is almost a privateer. Least in my book.

Well done sir!

[weavis]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Don't forget "and a braggart", which is almost a privateer. Least in my book.

Well done sir!

Im sure it was long winded, I nodded off myself a couple of times writing it.

You know, the thing about being dead, is that you dont know you are dead. Its not a problem for you, only for others.

Its the same with stupid.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Mark, I am impressed that you have the anchor dayshape on the bow. Nice!. Only the second one I've seen on the bay and delta. I really need to get some cardboard and black paint and make one.

West Marine offers the dayshape for under 20 dollars.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Wrong

You are of course only speaking for yourself, right?

Absolutely not! No one has any special credentials for their time living aboard or cruising. Those that expound more about their achievements seem to have less.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Absolutely not! No one has any special credentials for their time living aboard or cruising. Those that expound more about their achievements seem to have less.

I have a certificate in dinghy sailing. Im proud of that. Got it when I was 12.
Same year Mary Towns dumped me for Alan Jenkins. B@%tard!

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Me thinks the gauntlet has been thrown down...

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by weavis

Im sure it was long winded, I nodded off myself a couple of times writing it.

You know, the thing about being dead, is that you dont know you are dead. Its not a problem for you, only for others.

Its the same with stupid.

No one would know better than you.

[weavis]

So S.C.
Any plans to move on in the near future? Or are you hanging around for a while?