Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[Cap Erict3]

The mass graves found in Brazil were thought to be an effective way of dealing with the indigent. It didn't play well in the court of public opinion but the beggars quit frequenting affluent areas.

The indigent seem mostly to be a problem when they are visible or upwind of the haves.

I see the ability to shelter oneself by living in a derelict boat as a potentially positive thing. Houseboats been round long time in many cultures.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Oddly the coast guard and local sheriff departments actually do inspections around here. I get papers and head inspected at least once a year it seems.

On a different note about the TV. I've not had a tv for about 10 years now and watched little the previous 10 years. I've not missed it.

There will always be the bad apples out there to take advantage of the situation. I've found that most of the folks are just getting by and playing mostly by the rules. Yes the moorings in Richardson bay are illegal. My contention is that does less damage then a boat poorly anchored that goes walkabout and damages another boat or dock when the winds blow like snot out there. That happens all the time in Richardson bay.

In my mind it's the lessor of two evils, by far.

Again. You have no objective criteria on which to base your assumption it is anchored boats that drag. What kind of post construction inspection and maintenance is there for the many illegal moorings? Chain, shackles and swivels unseen beneath the surface are subject to deterioration and failure. Also, anyone who has deployed anchors at an angle to one another realizes if one breaks loose, odds are it will foul the second. So, having more than one anchor down guarantees nothing, even if led from a swivel in opposite directions.

Playing "mostly by the rules". What rules? Which rules? What makes playing mostly by the rules acceptable?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Do the marinas in this area allow for the use of their facilities by "anchor outs" with a fee? Are there public access dinghy docks in this area? I support the opportunity for those anchored out to have shore access. Is this shore access the reason why so many boats are located here? Are the other shores on Richardson's Bay all private property?

There are four dinghy docks on private property that the anchor outs can use. One at the fuel dock has a two hour time limit. So the others get packed with dinghies of all types and sizes. One of the marina's has a trash bin for the anchor outs too. There probably needs to be two more dinghy docks to handle the demand.

The north east part of the bay ( called the back bay) is shallow and all the property to the north and east is private. East side homes start at about 5 mil and go up to $15mil or so. West side homes are only a million and up so that's the low rent side of the bay.

Pretty much all the boats moored on the west of the channel are on mooring balls and pay for the privilege. Myself, when I visit Richardson bay, I'll be anchored more toward the east side, north of cone rock. Really tons of anchoring space. But yes the anchor outs and cruisers are generally anchored close to the west side dinghy docks.

Dock rents in Sausalito are on the high end and older boats need not apply.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

As I'm on the East US Coast and not familiar with Richardson's Bay, I took a look at Google map and counted about 200 boats from Waldo Point down to Sausalito Yacht Club all anchored reasonably near that area with many marinas. This distribution of boats without their presence to the NW suggests that they are located here because of shore access opportunities. Do the marinas in this area allow for the use of their facilities by "anchor outs" with a fee? Are there public access dinghy docks in this area? I support the opportunity for those anchored out to have shore access. Is this shore access the reason why so many boats are located here? Are the other shores on Richardson's Bay all private property?

Depth is the primary controlling factor affecting the distribution of boats. Second is desire to be close in. Not necessarily close to an access point but as close as one can reasonably expect to get given the crowded situation.

Every marina is required to provide shoreside access, but some effectively ignore the requirement in part due to how the marina was built. What exists in the way of dingy docks is totally inadequate, but not necessarily because there are too many dingies. More anchor outs than ever use runabouts, ski boats, jon boats and every description of over sized boats imaginable. My kayak has been run over twice by one or more of these oversized boats while secured to the dingy dock and consequently filled with water. You can see scum on the kayak top left by the miscreant boat. They have no respect or consideration for others...

'just curious.

Oh, ...and that $8 to $9 dollars a foot! Tha't approaching typical monthly rates here. I'm paying $1 per foot/ day for a couple of transient days at
my present location. I remember being at this same place in Coinjock, NC in 1972 for either 5 or 10 cents/ foot! Of course, that's the same as $1/foot now!

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Again. You have no objective criteria on which to base your assumption it is anchored boats that drag. What kind of post construction inspection and maintenance is there for the many illegal moorings? Chain, shackles and swivels unseen beneath the surface are subject to deterioration and failure. Also, anyone who has deployed anchors at an angle to one another realizes if one breaks loose, odds are it will foul the second. So, having more than one anchor down guarantees nothing, even if led from a swivel in opposite directions.

Playing "mostly by the rules". What rules? Which rules? What makes playing mostly by the rules acceptable?

Pretty much everybody speeds 10 to 15 miles over the speed limit in the USA, so there is one or several rules broken right there, by everyone. That whole come to a complete stop before turning gets broken all the time too. Called a California stop, where you just slow down for the stop sign. It's done ALL THE TIME.

In boating the 5 MPH speed limit in the Sausalito channel is violated all the time to. Not to mention a whole lotta colregs on the bay on any weekend.

Based on those and others there appears to be acceptable means that allows society to break rules in the USA. Its practically a national pastime.

So no I'm not getting bent out of shape because someone installs a few moorings in Richardson bay.


Yes it's the anchored boats that drag. The moored boats generally drag a whole lot less, which I think is of some benefit to the boaters and land owners. That's what I'm saying. As mooring field owners all over the USA find out, they sometimes need maintenance, that they rarely get. Why I avoid mooring balls as I have no idea what the condition of the mooring bits are in. Have you dived on your mooring to find out what condition it's in?

But you know I'm just a woman, so I know nothing.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

<snip>

Pretty much all the boats moored on the west of the channel are on mooring balls and pay for the privilege.

Not so south of the Sausalito Yacht Club or even north of Schoonmaker. South of the yacht club are illegally moored and possibly anchored boats. Hard to tell since they can be on an illegal mooring without a ball... In front of the Yacht Club just inside the main channel are no more than 3 port installed moorings for which people may pay a fee. North of Schoonmaker fully one third of the moorings are private and most likely legal. Again boats apparently anchored in this area are supposed to have a permit but don't. Probably not anchored either but on illegal moorings without a ball...

Myself, when I visit Richardson bay, I'll be anchored more toward the east side, north of cone rock. Really tons of anchoring space. But yes the anchor outs and cruisers are generally anchored close to the west side dinghy docks.

Dock rents in Sausalito are on the high end and older boats need not apply.[/QUOTE]

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Pretty much everybody speeds 10 to 15 miles over the speed limit in the USA, so there is one or several rules broken right there, by everyone. That whole come to a complete stop before turning gets broken all the time too. Called a California stop, where you just slow down for the stop sign. It's done ALL THE TIME.

In boating the 5 MPH speed limit in the Sausalito channel is violated all the time to. Not to mention a whole lotta colregs on the bay on any weekend.

Based on those and others there appears to be acceptable means that allows society to break rules in the USA. Its practically a national pastime.

So no I'm not getting bent out of shape because someone installs a few moorings in Richardson bay.

You haven't said how the anchor outs are adhering 'mostly to the rules'. Don't see the relevancy of your comments to the point of discussion.

Yes it's the anchored boats that drag. The moored boats generally drag a whole lot less, which I think is of some benefit to the boaters and land owners.

You don't know this is a fact, but fits well into your advocacy for illegal moorings and anarchy in Richardson Bay.

That's what I'm saying. As mooring field owners all over the USA find out, they sometimes need maintenance, that they rarely get. Why I avoid mooring balls as I have no idea what the condition of the mooring bits are in. Have you dived on your mooring to find out what condition it's in?

But you know I'm just a woman, so I know nothing.

Whatever...

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

You haven't said how the anchor outs are adhering 'mostly to the rules'. Don't see the relevancy of your comments to the point of discussion.



You don't know this is a fact, but fits well into your advocacy for illegal moorings and anarchy in Richardson Bay.
.

We will never agree on this subject, so I'm not even going to try.


Oddly on anchored boats dragging I do, I have friends out there and talk to them. So my information comes direct from those with first hand experience. Myself, I've been out there in 50 knot winds. Lovely time... not. But then I did not drag either.

[ruby tuesday]

Originally Posted by Wrong

dingy docks is totally inadequate, but not necessarily because there are too many dinghies

here we have a similar problem --- Ruby Tuesday is kept on a pontoon mooring (i did the sums and conversions - roughly $900 per month (my new contract is due in the next couple of months) prices are just spiraling everywhere and the marina i'm in is one the cheaper ones cos its has Irish Ferry terminal in it as well as a full RNLI station makes the whole place that bit more special.

and if i was to anchor out as i'm planning then it would cost about $50 every time i wanted to bring my dinghy in to the marina and leave while i went to the stores. we don't have special "dinghy docks" just marinas - where you can leave your dinghy tied up under a CCTV camera whilst you do your stuff.

the US is cheap compared to here - don't complain cos if you tried living here using the figures you're quoting then you'd get nothing at all.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by SURV69

valhalla360 ...

I don't intend to say trashing, pollution and abandoning boats is right, but that without trashing, polluting and abandoning boats that the personal use of natural resources for personal gain is not bad.

All the entities I named apply(under threat), more safeguards to protect the environment while still using the public's water for personal gain.

Sorry I thought you were implying they are free to use and abuse with no costs and thus everyone should be allowed to use and abuse with no cost.

Reality is there are a ton of rules for most of those you list and they paid a lot of money for waterfront property.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

In all these anti-live aboard threads it really seems to come down to that there isn't an issue overall with people living on their boats, there's a problems with bums on boats. The problem is that in general all live aboards get caught up in the "solutions" for the bums.

100% agree. Which makes one wonder why most of the respectable, self sufficient U.S. liveaboards seem to support the bums on boats.

It's a puzzlement.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

100% agree. Which makes one wonder why most of the respectable, self sufficient U.S. liveaboards seem to support the bums on boats.

It's a puzzlement.

Because in the legislating authorities eyes, there is no difference in either. and what affect one will affect the other and respectable, self sufficient U.S. liveaboards know this and prefer to deal with things on a local level. It is not a perfect system, but it works.

I have observed that the further away from government involvement in most issues the less it is likely to cost in pain and money.

Boating is slowly becoming strangled with regulations and costs.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

100% agree. Which makes one wonder why most of the respectable, self sufficient U.S. liveaboards seem to support the bums on boats.

It's a puzzlement.

No puzzlement. My experience is the respectable self sufficent liveaboards don't like the bums making them look bad (assuming you aren't using "respectable" as some implied qualifer)

Most are annoyed by the problems the bums create but are villified by implications we hate the poor or want to bury the bums in the jungle if we dissagree with thier actions, so a lot just stay silent on the subject since the self sufficient liveaboards are only modestly inconvienced as they keep a tidy boat and don't abuse the situation and thus rarely run afoul of the new regulations (not that they like the extra regulations).

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

We will never agree on this subject, so I'm not even going to try.

Ditto.

Oddly on anchored boats dragging I do, I have friends out there and talk to them. So my information comes direct from those with first hand experience.

Well then, your friends should be able to provide some statistics. No?

Myself, I've been out there in 50 knot winds. Lovely time... not. But then I did not drag either.

And you were anchored, right?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

And you were anchored, right?

Correct!. I never pick up a mooring. I've not yet dragged in a storm. Probably more luck and having an oversized anchor and all chain.