Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

Sorry to hear that my idea isn't practical given the climate in that area. I wish I could help.

If it were not for the summer winds it would be a lovely idea. They do work fine further inland. But the gentle 25 knot winds cool the bay down all summer long till september when the winds die a bit and the weather is sweat.

[Gadagirl]

Ahhhh yes,
"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco''

[jkindredpdx]

The homeless floaters are pretty new to waters in Portland... guess its global warming pushing em North. Some times they raft up 3-5 boats, and I haven't seen where they do any harm. Some have low wage jobs and they paddle into work. I also don't see where they ask for any subsidy or assistance, just a free place to park. The state requires boats to change anchorage every 14 days.

Some land bound homeless successfully formed "Dignity Village" a self governing community... I don't know what that has to do with the discussion, but it gives me hope.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

What BS! You're breaking my heart.

Nothing of substance in your sniping. Only evidence you may have objections on principle to the proposed changes in Richardson Bay. Political? Economic?

How does anything happening in Richardson Bay affect you if you're in Marina Del Ray?

You have your own ideas about how the chaos in Richardson Bay can be resolved in a fair and equitable manner? Or, do you believe 'fair and equitable' are standards that never matter?

[Terra Nova]

Pure evil, anywhere, affects all of us.

[mark rocco mont]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

More and more folks living at anchor are considered persona non grata by the land side folks. In the SF bay it is illegal to anchor in one spot long term. Of course there have been folks doing it forever here too.

Water I get at the free pump out locations, when I use the pump out facilities. I use my own hose though. Most fuel docks will give you water when filling up. Many pump outs in SF bay are free. Of course most marines here only charge $30 ish a night or less,some as low as $15 a night. Though the high end marina's in Sausalito and SF charge more. Needless to say, I'll not be staying there any time soon.

So in the SF central bay long term anchor outs, more then 90 days with permit, or 3 days without, is officially illegal. But there are about 100 boats in Richardson bay at any time. Most have been there for years if not decades. By my admittedly lowish standards, most (70% ish) are ship shape. That is fairly clean with sail covers, etc. in sailing condition. Though even those are considered trashy by the land side folks in their 9000+ sf homes on da hill. Which is why anchoring is frowned upon. Gee probably 10 percent of the boats in Richardson bay are owned by single women.

On the other hand marina's love liveaboards. Well OK not all do. But liveaboard fees can just about double slip cost, which is why some marines love it. Of course, I stopped paying liveaboard fees years ago.

With that said, many people live full time on the hook in the California delta. Some for 30 years. Myself I'm a bit too much a gypsy and don't stay in any one location long term. One of these days, I'll need to move on. But I find the California Delta and even the Bay fairly cheap living.

Of course all anchor outs suffer from mental illness. Otherwise, we would be living ashore, working and being productive model citizens, with 2.3 children, two cars, three TV's, watching fox news and with debt up to the wazoo, and hating every minute of it. Been there done that, Thank you but no thank you.

I'm with you had the cars. TV. had my own business for most of my life.... lost every thing really don't care going ahead with my sailing lesson and in the near future buy a sail boat and live aboard....i live now in Wilmington NC from NY from what i see they are boat friendly here....time will tell

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Pure evil, anywhere, affects all of us.

Is pure evil worse, than like Dr. Evil, evil?

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by mark rocco mont

............... I live now in Wilmington NC from NY from what i see they are boat friendly here....time will tell

I just left Carolina Beach at the Cape Fear River this morning and we are now at New River Inlet. All this area of the SE US is live aboard friendly!

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I just left Carolina Beach at the Cape Fear River this morning and we are now at New River Inlet. All this area of the SE US is live aboard friendly!

So, the remaining live aboard friendly locations in the U.S. of A either require you to freeze your butt off, and or risk losing everything in a 'cane... And, oh, don't forget the humidity and high temps along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts. Lovely. Just lovely.

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

I was just trying to think of a low cost solution to a problem of cleanliness and basic hygiene. I wasn't really trying to tackle the bigger picture of this threads' subject. My bad, thread drift.

I only meant to make a person less fortunate a little more comfortable. In my mind donating something worth less than $10 would be similar to me donating shampoo, toothpaste, soap etc. to the local shelter or food bank. I didn't look at it as an enticement though. Do people really give up jobs because someone offered them a derelict boat and a shower? Wow, I'm way out of touch with society! I always thought that people in dire straits got there due to illness or tragedy or sometimes just life circumstances. Consider me enlightened!

My comments applied more to the other poster who suggested creating the equivalent of Section 8 in the anchorage. I am not saying, by any means, that there aren't people who are down and out and genuinely needy through no fault of their own and who would definitely rather work, given the chance, than accept a handout. However, you'd be surprised how many people are happy to work the minimum necessary to survive if the good hearted of the world offer them the benefits to make it possible. I have a brother who is a prime example. He lives in a tent in the woods in Florida. He's perfectly healthy and has a trade that is in demand but he would rather spend his money on booze and he absolutely refuses to pay rent to anyone. So he goes to the day labor hall only as often as he absolutely has to in order to support his subsistence lifestyle. If someone makes an additional benefit available for him that fills a need. that's less days he has to show up at the labor hall. And, no, he is not the only one. It's a sub-culture.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

My comments applied more to the other poster who suggested creating the equivalent of Section 8 in the anchorage. I am not saying, by any means, that there aren't people who are down and out and genuinely needy through no fault of their own and who would definitely rather work, given the chance, than accept a handout. However, you'd be surprised how many people are happy to work the minimum necessary to survive if the good hearted of the world offer them the benefits to make it possible. I have a brother who is a prime example. He lives in a tent in the woods in Florida. He's perfectly healthy and has a trade that is in demand but he would rather spend his money on booze and he absolutely refuses to pay rent to anyone. So he goes to the day labor hall only as often as he absolutely has to in order to support his subsistence lifestyle. If someone makes an additional benefit available for him that fills a need. that's less days he has to show up at the labor hall. And, no, he is not the only one. It's a sub-culture.

Your point is well made, and there are folks just like your Brother who occupy boats in Richardson Bay. The mentioned subsidy is for people already in the anchorage who are making an honest effort to achieve a goal, whether that's finishing college or learning marketable skills aimed at getting them ahead economically, into a house and off the boat. It is not meant to exist forever, only treat people fairly who're trying to get ahead but could not otherwise afford to pay a full mooring fee when push comes to shove.

Those like your Brother may end up in the managed anchorage, but only if their boat can pass inspection, has the required ground tackle and they play by the rules. Otherwise, there will be no place for them in Richardson Bay...

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

I have a brother who is a prime example. He lives in a tent in the woods in Florida. He's perfectly healthy and has a trade that is in demand but he would rather spend his money on booze and he absolutely refuses to pay rent to anyone. So he goes to the day labor hall only as often as he absolutely has to in order to support his subsistence lifestyle. If someone makes an additional benefit available for him that fills a need. that's less days he has to show up at the labor hall. And, no, he is not the only one. It's a sub-culture.

Not everyone wants to work 9 to 5 for 50 years and then die. Sounds like your brother lives the life he wants. Not a bad thing.

Myself I did that work 40-60 hours a week for 30 years. Then got right sized during the great recession. Best thing that ever happened to me.

Now I work 15-20 hours (sometimes no hours, sometimes a bit more) a week from my boat, while also sailing, kayaking, swimming etc. It's not too bad and beats commuting to work every day by roughly 10000 percent. I don't own a house, car, TV. Have not had a single utility bill (other then phone and or internet) in ten years. My total taxes and insurance (property/income) a year is generally under $1000. It was well under $500, but that work thing is causing me to pay more taxes this year.

Many of the folk living in Richardson bay have jobs. Others have a pension and a part are on welfair/food stamps, or disability. Some have a mental illness and a good many love to drink. Generally they and I include myself are a sub-culture. One that the average land folks just don't understand. But there is not a thing wrong with that sub culture.

Myself I think the average American is a bit crazy. Then I realize, I might be the crazy one. I'm OK with that.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Your point is well made, and there are folks just like your Brother who occupy boats in Richardson Bay. The mentioned subsidy is for people already in the anchorage who are making an honest effort to achieve a goal, whether that's finishing college or learning marketable skills aimed at getting them ahead economically, into a house and off the boat. It is not meant to exist forever, only treat people fairly who're trying to get ahead but could not otherwise afford to pay a full mooring fee when push comes to shove.

Those like your Brother may end up in the managed anchorage, but only if their boat can pass inspection, has the required ground tackle and they play by the rules. Otherwise, there will be no place for them in Richardson Bay...

I so don't play by the rules and detest the whole idea of a managed anchorage. But then I find Richardson Bay to be a noisy place, what with all the land traffic and shore development that has destroyed the natural ambiance that was Richardson Bay.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Not everyone wants to work 9 to 5 for 50 years and then die. Sounds like your brother lives the life he wants. Not a bad thing.

Myself I did that work 40-60 hours a week for 30 years. Then got right sized during the great recession. Best thing that ever happened to me.

Now I work 15-20 hours (sometimes no hours, sometimes a bit more) a week from my boat, while also sailing, kayaking, swimming etc. It's not too bad and beats commuting to work every day by roughly 10000 percent. I don't own a house, car, TV. Have not had a single utility bill (other then phone and or internet) in ten years. My total taxes and insurance (property/income) a year is generally under $1000. It was well under $500, but that work thing is causing me to pay more taxes this year.

Many of the folk living in Richardson bay have jobs. Others have a pension and a part are on welfair/food stamps, or disability. Some have a mental illness and a good many love to drink. Generally they and I include myself are a sub-culture. One that the average land folks just don't understand. But there is not a thing wrong with that sub culture.

Myself I think the average American is a bit crazy. Then I realize, I might be the crazy one. I'm OK with that.

Regardless of one's preferred lifestyle, which you refer loosely to as a culture, it's necessary sometimes to cooperate with others in order to continue living that lifestyle. It's necessary sometimes to work as you do 15-20 hours a week, even if you were to quit after earning enough for required ground tackle and to make necessary repairs in order to pass inspection. Some may even want to work only as many hours as it will take to earn $150 per month for a mooring. A quick glance at the mail many receive at 300 Napa, informs us that a considerable number of folks in the anchorage may be receiving social services and financial assistance. Presumably some of them are the 'mentally ill' you mentioned. In any case, an objective of the RBRA plan is to put people you've described in touch with those in the business of helping the same.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I so don't play by the rules and detest the whole idea of a managed anchorage. But then I find Richardson Bay to be a noisy place, what with all the land traffic and shore development that has destroyed the natural ambiance that was Richardson Bay.

But, you do play by the rules if only minimally or the extent you're comfortable.

I detest boats occupying space in Richardson Bay that have nobody on them.