Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[C Skip R]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Liveaboards [on mooring balls, and not in a marina, as your post implies] are given a bum rap because of:

poop in the water
theft of outboard motors
mental illness
derelect boats (citing boats w/ a tarp rain-catchment system as an example, pretending it has a 'roof leak')
anchors that plow ALL the sea grass up, ruining the environment
and don't forget those runaway uninsured boats that are so hazardous, like ticking time-bombs just waiting to explode!
what about terrorist hideouts?
& drug smuggling
they don't pay taxes, unless they're in a marina of course
oh... the list goes on

Just ask some of your local communities how much they pay to salvage abandoned boats; how often they call the cops because of unruly behavior, drunkenness, and drugs; how many resources (people and costs) they have to dedicate to clean up contaminants spilled in the waterways. I'm in no way suggesting the majority of people who buy boats are doing this, but a lot of people think this is a cheap way to live yet they don't understand the maintenance that's needed to keep a boat on top of the water so they don't have any concerns about walking away from it when they can't handle it anymore. By the way, the same rules are generally true of tent camping, RVs, trailer parks, etc. Over time, the bad apples have left their stain on everyone else.

XXXX2

[sailorchic34]

I'm trying to put my arms around the idea that my living on a boat at anchor hither and yon, effects someone else in a negative way. Sorry just don't see it.

Sure if I pulled my boat next to a MC-mansion, set up camp they might be annoyed. But I don't do that. Nor do I have a desire to live in someones back yard.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Well, Coops and Weavis,
Your Socialist mantra is alive and well and, in fact, growing in numbers daily. We demonize those in society who have worked hard, invested their money wisely and have relied on their own skills and abilities to provide a life for themselves and their families. They are not a burden to society, but rather the force which keeps societies and economies healthy. When they have chosen to reap the rewards of their labor(like buying a home on the water), they are labeled selfish, greedy, and unwilling to share. On the other hand, those who have not taken this path by either lack of intelligence, skills, courage, sloth or lack of motivation but have chosen to be wards of their employers or the State are the "nobles hommes" of whom must suffer the transgressions of the hated rich. The reason that Europe is in collapse economically(with the exception of Germany), and the US following close behind is that without producers who buy those million dollar homes and are willing to invest personally in their countries, they can't survive. And when those with wealth decline or are taxed into oblivion, the system cannot survive since the tax base is insufficient to support the total cost of social services, yet unpaid, by the government. What does this have to do with the subject at hand? It was your digression, not mine, but in a Democracy there are rights that are applied equally to all, and the man with the house on the water has the same right to get what he paid for when he signed the contract--a beautiful home on the water . . . not a backyard to a homelss camp. Good luck, good sailing, and by all means, Brothers . . . Power to the People! Captain Rognvald

When your reading and comprehension skills match your vitriolic outburst, Maybe we can have a conversation.

[Coops]

My statement was about selfishness, and selfishness alone. I would not know what a socialist mantra is because I have zero interest or knowledge about them, or whatever the other side's mantra is either.

Coops.

[Pelagic]

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...of_Selfishness

Coops....This book may be useful

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I'm trying to put my arms around the idea that my living on a boat at anchor hither and yon, effects someone else in a negative way. Sorry just don't see it...

Good post.

[forsailbyowner]

Originally Posted by Coops

But the argument of the folks who cry "why it is not a free country?" is that they should be allowed to do what they want. The fact that this means that somebody else has a quality of life diminished by their actions is of no concern to them. They merely want to go about their selfish ways and complain when somebody tells them that they cannot.

"I want to be free and left alone" usually means "I do not care about anybody else but me."

Coops.

Your on the other side of the pond reading peoples posts. Ive lived here for 51 years and have seen the freedoms erode at an increasing pace. You have no idea of what im talking about. If you dont have the money to afford lawyers you can be arrested or ticketed at the whim of a police officer after having committed no crime. If you cant afford a lawyer a public attorney will be provided. They work with the same judges all day long and have relationships that matter more than right and wrong. Once your in the system its very hard to get out. Make a plea deal which is almost always the case, then end up on probation for a number of years. That whole time your under the microscope. A small infraction will get you jail time and more probation and it goes on and on. Your house can be invaded, your belongings searched and seized with impunity. When police officers violate your constitutional rights theres not a rats chance in hell that he will suffer any meaningful consequences. Checkpoints, harrassment and an attitude that the general public is the enemy abounds and is getting worse and worse. People are getting pretty pissed off and something is going to break before long. The occupy wall street , teaparty and militias all highlight the situation. If you have money your immune to a large extent. I talked to one policeman who said he was quitting the force because he said theyre upholding policies that basically make it illegal to be poor. So tell me what you know about americans freedoms, but do some research first.

[rognvald]

[QUOTE=weavis;1530564]When your reading and comprehension skills match your vitriolic outburst, Maybe we can have a conversation.[/QUOTE

Weavis,
When you resort to name calling in place of logic and reason, you have sorely lost the battle and have diminished your credibility to any thinking person. But, I must apologize since, as you can surely see, my communicative skills are primitive, at best, and you have at least been a gentleman to have tolerated my slavish gibberish. Oh, well. Off to Dr. Seuss. Captain Rognvald the Obtuse

[BandB]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I'm trying to put my arms around the idea that my living on a boat at anchor hither and yon, effects someone else in a negative way. Sorry just don't see it.

Sure if I pulled my boat next to a MC-mansion, set up camp they might be annoyed. But I don't do that. Nor do I have a desire to live in someones back yard.

I doubt seriously that your living at anchor has ever effected someone in a negative way.

Amazing thing. When we bought a house on the water, we just sort of assumed there would be lots of boats. Some docked. Some passing. Some anchoring although not really many do that simply because there are much better areas to anchor nearby. Very few want to anchor in a heavily traveled fairly narrow canal lined with homes on both sides and boats constantly coming through and going by on the ICW as well. Shocked us one day to see a boat fishing not too far from our docks. Shocked us more when they caught something. And it was a girl about 7 years old I guess and quite a sizable fish. We all walked to the dock to cheer her. We even took some photos on our phone of her holding it up where they were and then got their number and texted them the photos. Every once in a while annoying jet skiers who cut in front of boats, run close to docked boats and head up the narrowest canals lined with boats full speed, creating large wakes. But we like boats and enjoy seeing them. If we didn't, we just wouldn't live there.

[Coops]

I would like the freedom to give an opinion based on nothing but what I read here from posts without it being suggested that I have a political bias of any kind and that I should first know all about government policies and other stuff that bores me to tears and which have no bearing on what I was talking about.

I think I know how chickens feel. They would just like the freedom to cross the road without their motives being questioned.

Coops.

[GILow]

It's not strictly addressing the original post, but we have a number of liveaboards at our yacht club and I think they are the best thing since sliced bread. All are friendly knowledgable people who can tell me if our boat is sinking in time for me to be able to do something about it.

Matt

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Coops

I would like the freedom to give an opinion based on nothing but what I read here without it being suggested that I have a political bias of any kind and that I should first know all about government policies and other stuff that bores me to tears and which have no bearing on what I was talking about.

I think I know how chickens feel. They would just like the freedom to cross the road without their motives being questioned.

Coops.

The thread was going so well, discussing the whys and wherefores of feelings toward liveaboards. But then it had to be taken to discussing politics and people arguing their agendas. Suddenly it's a rant on things having nothing to do with this topic. If I approach an intersection and it has a sign indicating I can't turn right on red at that intersection, then I haven't suddenly been deprived of all my freedom and entered some other world.

As to the chickens, when they get angry they can be very mean.

[weavis]

[QUOTE=rognvald;1530586]

Originally Posted by weavis

When your reading and comprehension skills match your vitriolic outburst, Maybe we can have a conversation.[/QUOTE

Weavis,
When you resort to name calling in place of logic and reason, you have sorely lost the battle and have diminished your credibility to any thinking person. But, I must apologize since, as you can surely see, my communicative skills are primitive, at best, and you have at least been a gentleman to have tolerated my slavish gibberish. Oh, well. Off to Dr. Seuss. Captain Rognvald the Obtuse

Your obvious inability to distinguish name calling from merely pointing out the deliberate or perhaps an inability to comprehend the fullness of what was said within the context, leads me to observe the need to vent a political viewpoint.

You stated: Your Socialist mantra is alive and well and, in fact, growing in numbers daily.

You dont know me. You did not read what I wrote. I will let this pass.

You stated: We demonize those in society who have worked hard, invested their money wisely and have relied on their own skills and abilities to provide a life for themselves and their families.

You dont know me. You did not read what I wrote. I will let this pass.

What I will say is that the man who can afford a 1 million dollar yacht has paid as much, if not more tax in his lifetime than a man who lives in a home on the side of river. He has equally contributed to Society.

You stated: They are not a burden to society, but rather the force which keeps societies and economies healthy. When they have chosen to reap the rewards of their labor(like buying a home on the water), they are labeled selfish, greedy, and unwilling to share.

They did not buy a home on the water. They bought a home on the land.

You stated: On the other hand, those who have not taken this path by either lack of intelligence, skills, courage, sloth or lack of motivation but have chosen to be wards of their employers or the State are the "nobles hommes" of whom must suffer the transgressions of the hated rich.

So all boaters are slothful, lacking motivation, lacking intelligent and living off the country?

You stated: The reason that Europe is in collapse economically(with the exception of Germany), and the US following close behind is that without producers who buy those million dollar homes and are willing to invest personally in their countries, they can't survive. And when those with wealth decline or are taxed into oblivion, the system cannot survive since the tax base is insufficient to support the total cost of social services, yet unpaid, by the government. What does this have to do with the subject at hand? It was your digression, not mine,

NO sir, its your digressive rant, your entitled to go at it so fire away. And I might add that it is "opinion" (yours) as to why the West is in collapse. I have a different view but did not bring politics into this conversation.


You stated: but in a Democracy there are rights that are applied equally to all, and the man with the house on the water has the same right to get what he paid for when he signed the contract--a beautiful home on the water . . . not a backyard to a homelss camp.

Um. Its not a Democracy, its a Republic. A minor point but accurate. Also as stated before, The house is not on the water, its on the land.

Finally, I think FACTS will bear out that the majority of complaints are not because there are some homeless people causing riots in "backyards" so to speak. It is simply because people who choose to live near water, want it all and feel its wrong that others dont live the same life that they do and feel aggrieved for whatever reason that justifies their positional stance.

No one wants trouble on their doorstep. If boaters are causing problems then they are bad neighbours. Remove the neighbours. If it was a house no one would dream of closing down the house because of that. No, more tenants move in and hopefully are better this time. With boaters, its a good excuse to shut their access down all over the country. Weird that aint it?

I hope you feel better soon and the emotional crisis passes.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by BandB

As to the chickens, when they get angry they can be very mean.

They can be nasty little cluckers they can.

Coops.

[Terra Nova]

Having lived aboard my own boats for nearly 1/2 my 70 years it should be no surprise that I have an educated opinion.

The increased pressure live-aboards (not yachts passing through) are facing is political. Moneyed interests want the waterfront we occupy for more lucrative development. He with the gold makes the rules.