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Old 30-04-2014, 18:36   #91
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Having lived aboard my own boats for nearly 1/2 my 70 years it should be no surprise that I have an educated opinion.

The increased pressure live-aboards (not yachts passing through) are facing is political. Moneyed interests want the waterfront we occupy for more lucrative development. He with the gold makes the rules.
Well done for having a life you wanted sir.
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Old 30-04-2014, 19:03   #92
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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They can be nasty little cluckers they can.

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Wifey B: And especially the hens. Nasty mother cluckers they are.
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Old 30-04-2014, 19:04   #93
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Wifey B: And especially the hens. Nasty mother cluckers they are.
ROFL!
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Old 30-04-2014, 19:28   #94
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by leightonyachts View Post



Oh and since when do I not have the right to be on my boat 24-7 when I pay for the slip 24-7 already? liveaboard or no liveaboard, I am paying for the slip and the utilities. But the "dock cops" ( gestapo spies) are making sure you are not staying on your boat more than 7 days a month? So does that mean I get a refund if I am only using my boat 1/3rd of the time that I am paying for the slip? ahhhh of course not.
Lets bring a little reality to the table shall we...You pay 1X a month for your boat to be there 24/7. You pay 1X plus y for a liveaboard fee if applicable. The spies, as you call them, feel they need to be there so people are not sneak-a-boards using there space heaters 24/7 creating costs for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
During my liveaboard life in SoCal and Mexico, it was always interspersed with cruising so we were away from the dock or anchorage for months at a time but always returned to the same areas we were fond of and familiar with. Marinas welcomed us back knowing we were living aboard, even in crowded San Diego. Our relationship with Marina management was characterized as one of mutual respect, we lived by their rules and they cut us a lot of slack when it came to working on our boat. I recall there being a rule that you could not perform work on parts of your boat on the dock, a rule I think that was intended to stop folks, for example, from tearing down a head and leaving bits and pieces lying around for weeks while waiting for parts. Yet, when I asked if I could lay out several sections of cabin sole to refinish, do all the sanding with a vacuum attachment and cover the dock with drop cloths before varnishing, I got the go-ahead. These were the same precautions i would have taken if I did the work aboard.
We spent about 13 years, off and on, at the same marinas, and became good friends not only with other liveaboards but particularly with the marina staff. I did find that marina management in Mexico was only too happy to go out of thier way to acommodate us over the years, though.
There was another liveaboard who obviously didn't have much pride in ownership, was drunk a fair bit of the time and belligerent most of the time in San Diego. After many attempts to evict the vessel, the marina was finally successful. That action drove the offending liveaboard to the anchorage about 50 yards off the marina. He would avail himself of landing at the marina dock, filling his water jugs, etc., until he was caught on CC vandalizing the pump out one night. While he was serving time for the vandalism, his boat was siezed as a derelict and, I believe, disposed of. What goes around, comes around.
I'm sure that the treatment of liveaboards has changed over the years but I wonder how much of this negativity is a result of lack of considerating of others by liveaboards themselves? Phil
I spent 6 weeks in Chula Vista waiting out hurricane season. What a great experience with the management and other liveaboards.
The offending liveaboard, you spoke of, that vandalized the marina, is why 1 ahole ruins it for decent folk.

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
The bottom line is that derelict liveaboards, who never sail their boats, are effecting anchoring rights of people who do sail their boats . We should not demonize a man who has invested millions in a waterfront home-his dream, because he believes his view is despoiled by unsightly, unkempt vessels who pollute the water, create a noise nuisance and attract other derelict vessels like a homeless encampment. On the other hand, a boat in transit that is well maintained for sailing should be allowed the right to anchor as long as he has not decided to set up Winter camp in someone's backyard and is moving on a regular basis. There is a quid pro quo. The problem is that many who call themselves cruisers are not . . . they merely live on a boat. They do not help those in transit because many represent the worst in our sport rather than the best. That is the reality. When I first began sailing in South Florida during the late 70's, there were no issues regarding anchoring. Today, waterfront communities are reluctant to open their arms to sailors since they have been burned in the past by the worst of our lifestyle. We, as a community, need to confront this issue head-on if we want to maintain our rights to anchor and cruise without patronizing marinas. Once our rights are gone, they may never return. Good luck and good sailing.
While I agree that we should not be attacking waterfront owners, I think they are an easy target of the haves and have nots. I suspect it's the bad liveaboards blaming someone else for what they bring upon themselves. That said...if it were true...the so called McMassion owners have no rights to complain about their view which they do not own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Having lived aboard my own boats for nearly 1/2 my 70 years it should be no surprise that I have an educated opinion.

The increased pressure live-aboards (not yachts passing through) are facing is political. Moneyed interests want the waterfront we occupy for more lucrative development. He with the gold makes the rules.
Again...This is just you on a soapbox blaming someone with money. Do you know this for a fact or is it just a political thing. I'm a blue-collar guy...always have been. I once lived in a 3' X 6' tent for a few years when I was in my early 20s. I pulled my self out of that lifestyle and achieved what I call today as a comfortable lifestyle. I don't care what a person has. He's just a person. I don't need to make up names to demonize him.
That's not to say that there is no undercurrent with the 1%. A page back in my blog I researched one of the richest men in the world and the richest woman in the world, looking at their contributions to society. But at least I had facts and only stated what could happen if they gave and helped out a little more. But it is not me against them. They have to live with themselves and I have to be comfortable in my own skin as well.
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Old 30-04-2014, 20:00   #95
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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...This is just you on a soapbox blaming someone with money. Do you know this for a fact or is it just a political thing...
Since you weren't there, I can't expect you to know anything about this (though you imply otherwise). You haven't been to these meetings. And I know neither were you involved when MDR live-aboards were attacked with a 3X rent increase in a vicious attempt at eviction. So you probably don't know about the efforts of those who DID go to the meetings, Marina Boatowners Association and others, and fought for our freedom and rights.
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Old 30-04-2014, 20:27   #96
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Since you weren't there, I can't expect you to know anything about this (though you imply otherwise). You haven't been to these meetings. And I know neither were you involved when MDR live-aboards were attacked with a 3X rent increase in a vicious attempt at eviction. So you probably don't know about the efforts of those who DID go to the meetings, Marina Boatowners Association and others, and fought for our freedom and rights.
Then you won't mind enlightening us how "He with the gold makes the rules" in this case and is political.
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Old 30-04-2014, 20:39   #97
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Wifey B: I sure as heck wish Coops would turn the chickens loose.
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Old 30-04-2014, 21:58   #98
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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...how "He with the gold makes the rules" in this case and is political.
In so far as government and business entering into a for-profit contract for exclusive use of public land? That kind of politics?
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Old 30-04-2014, 23:44   #99
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Wifey B: I sure as heck wish Coops would turn the chickens loose.
Then all the little peckers could gather together in the yard with their ruffled feathers and cackle incessantly.

Coops.
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Old 30-04-2014, 23:47   #100
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Then all the little peckers could gather together in the yard with their ruffled feathers and cackle incessantly.

Coops.
Wifey B: I think they already are......
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:48   #101
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I think most of us leaned something at a young age.
Life isn't fair, wish it was, but wishing doesn't change things.
Reminds me of the what did we learn from the 60's thread.
Some of us learned that life isn't fair, so essentially we sold out
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:50   #102
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

It's really pretty simple:
- Liveaboards are generally not the problem.
- Liveaboards who make a nuisance of themselves are the problem.
- The general public doesn't really care to get to know each individual and thier circumstances.
- Even if they did care, it's not possible to get to know each and every one.
- Rules get applied across groups so all liveaboards and to a lesser extent, cruisers tend to get caught up in the problem.
- If you don't want the locals to run you off, don't give them a reason to single out the group you are part of and distinguish yourself from the SOB's who give us all a bad name.
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:57   #103
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Communities around the world have always had "issues" with vagabonds, gypsies, and trailor trash. Pretty sure liveaboards fall into those categories for some...unless you live on a really nice boat and pay substantial marina fees to be there.

I doubt anyone was very upset when Luna was anchored outside the break water at Marina del Rey last summer.

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Old 01-05-2014, 10:02   #104
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

-" Liveaboards are generally not the problem.
- Liveaboards who make a nuisance of themselves are the problem.
- The general public doesn't really care to get to know each individual and thier circumstances.
- Even if they did care, it's not possible to get to know each and every one.
- Rules get applied across groups so all liveaboards and to a lesser extent, cruisers tend to get caught up in the problem.
- If you don't want the locals to run you off, don't give them a reason to single out the group you are part of and distinguish yourself from the SOB's who give us all a bad name."

Here is the issue I see.
  • Not everyone who contributes to CF speaks English.
  • Not everyone who contributes to CF has good communication skills
  • Not everyone who contributes to CF is a Democrat.
  • NOt everyone at CF is as nice as they think they are.
On that basis, it is imperative to make the effort to understand what a person is trying to say the best we can instead of refusing to view it. I do think some valid points were made in the post which were in response to previous posts.
It does not mean I agree with them.
It means I attempted to see what another CF members experience/opinion is.
If we dont do that........ then we are insisting our opinion is the only one that matters.
It might well be the correct viewpoint is ours, but always good to see if the other person has a valid point or it negates the point of having a forum.

I have to listen to complaints all day. I know what I can do and what I cant, but sometimes, just sometimes something is said that helps the situation or clarifies an issue.

Its a courtesy we owe to someone who is brave enough to voice an opinion.
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Old 01-05-2014, 10:18   #105
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
There might be good info in there but it's lost due to poor communication skills.

It's really pretty simple:
- Liveaboards are generally not the problem.
- Liveaboards who make a nuisance of themselves are the problem.
- The general public doesn't really care to get to know each individual and thier circumstances.
- Even if they did care, it's not possible to get to know each and every one.
- Rules get applied across groups so all liveaboards and to a lesser extent, cruisers tend to get caught up in the problem.
- If you don't want the locals to run you off, don't give them a reason to single out the group you are part of and distinguish yourself from the SOB's who give us all a bad name.

+1 Perfect
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