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Old 21-07-2015, 11:07   #736
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
I'm glad you mentioned the anchorage on the backside of Corornado Island. We lived about at the Naval Amphibious Base Marina on Coronado in the '80's and I remember now that there we a lot of boats anchored there back then too. I don't really remember taking notice whether they were occupied by liveaboards. It's a beautiful spot though.
I'm pretty sure the majority of boats at that anchorage (perhaps a dozen is all) are live-aboards, as I see the same boats there all the time, and I wouldn't leave a boat in an open ocean anchorage just to sit. Safety-wise it's not a real problem because a boat that comes loose from that anchorage will beach on an unused sandy beach at the end of the runway for Coronado Naval Air Station, or will break up on the rocks of Zuniga Jetty, but still, not something I would do.

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The mooring balls downtown near the Star of India always seemed to me that they might be a fun place to be for a little while just to be close to where everything is happening but I don't think I would like it for too long. A little bit of that kind of atmosphere goes a long way with us and then we have to seek out peace and quiet.
My brother-in-law lives aboard there right now. It's definitely a bit of a community; he had to interceded in a nearby domestic dispute and rescue a drunk woman on a different boat from her drunk boyfriend about six months ago. People know you, they know who belongs, and who doesn't. Most people keep to themselves and there's not a lot of noise. The quay wall has some homeless people living on benches because the mooring bathrooms are open to the public, but it's right on Harbor drive so the police presence is constant.

When I eventually live aboard, it will be as a cruiser, meaning anchoring and slipping. I'd personally much rather anchor than moor; moorings are too crowded for my taste.
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Old 21-07-2015, 21:22   #737
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
When I eventually live aboard, it will be as a cruiser, meaning anchoring and slipping. I'd personally much rather anchor than moor; moorings are too crowded for my taste.
Depends on the location. The mooring field in Sarasota Bay in front of Marina Jacks for instance seems to have plenty of space and the mooring balls are designed for a Cat 5 storm (or so I have been told), you have access to full list of amenities (below) and for our size boat runs $270 a month. It's a premier location.

• Engineered Mooring
• Full Service Mooring Staff
• Shower/Restroom Facilities
• Pumpout Vessel
• Mail Service
Laundry Facilities
Dinghy Dockage
Fuel Dock/Ship Store
• Trash & Recycling Service
• Potable Water
• Temporary Slip For Loading/Repairs
• Wi-Fi Access

I read they have recently added a water taxi to ferry boaters to shore, for a fee I'm sure. Sounds like luxury living for a mooring field.
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Old 25-08-2015, 09:57   #738
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Phil,

Would that be the same "types" who gravitate towards being on condo committees?

We call them "behavior Nazis" - worse than the soup nazi!

Wrong - I continue to understand your posts. I continue to wonder why you simply don't answer my basic questions:

--- Your proposal (or the ones you claim are before the RB-whatchamacallit) about the type of anchor rode doesn't appear to include a mix of rode and chain for anchoring in 12 feet of water. 50 feet of chain on a 5:1 scope ain't gonna make the "criteria" if one include the height of the bow above the water, right? So, an exemption would have to be granted. Yet I would venture to guess that a mixed rode is what 90% of "qualified" skippers use here. Those of us who are NOT circumnavigators, but qualified nonetheless.

--- You keep mentioning the 72 hour limit. I am unclear on whether or not the anchor nazis come out to check your "gear" before, after or during your initial anchor set. This is another REAL WORLD question that I believe I asked before but remained unanswered. I also mentioned that I had asked this same question about the Clipper Cove nonsense. If the limit is 72 hours, who keeps track of the time limits? In my letter to the TIA re Clipper Cove, I noted this, while somewhat different that the Sausalito issue, the concepts remain similar:

Enforcement: While we understand that your process is in its development stage, a basic question related to any “permitting” is: Who “polices” the activity and enforces the permits? There would be evident costs associated with this, all of which would most likely be used to justify the eventual application of “fees” which is not your stated goal. We have seen altogether too many incidents of “law enforcement” boats zooming through a quiet morning anchorage. More wakes are the last thing that are needed at Clipper Cove.

I look out at the anchorage here from cockpit at Schoonmaker's guest dock. There would have to be at least two "officials" with dependable boats. Two, of course, since only one "anchor nazi" couldn't be expected to be awake 24/7/365. Maybe three, right? So, even at minimum wage, that's some serious bread we're talking about, to say nothing about the cost of the boat, engine, maintenance and fuel.

I know one of the crew members of the Alameda sheriff's boat. Since the city bought the fancy-dan boat with Homeland Security $$ back in 2002, the budget has been slashed, so the boat only gets to out one day a week, Mondays - probably the very LAST day of the week that boaters are out and about! And the ONLY reason they get to go out at all is because if they didn't their "captain's license" wouldn't be able to be kept current.

So, continuing in that vein, here's more of what I wrote to the TIA in 2009:

Fees: Eventual bureaucratic “justification” for managing any permitting process is inevitable. There has rarely been a governmental “solution” that eventually does not involve fees. Whether this is for enforcement, paperwork, website production and access or anything else, even if it starts out for free, we are certain that eventually fees will be imposed. Please think in the long term and recognize that sooner or later fess will be part of the process. Then, your handsome goal of removing the derelict boats will be borne by future “responsible boaters” who, if you are successful, will have never seen nor heard of those derelicts. This is patently unfair and counter to your original goals.

and

Visitors: You must consider how strangers to the area will know about permit requirements. The cost for installing signage would become just another excuse for fees. We have friends who are sailing down from British Columbia. We could tell them, but what about folks who are coming through from the Delta, or just moving here and don’t know? These visitors would appear to be the first ones who would end up paying fines, another unforeseen consequence, and another fancy word for fees.

"Permitting" of free anchorage space is a solution looking for a non-existent problem.

Permitting of an anchorage is an oxymoron if one thinks about it a bit.

Unforeseen circumstances crop up all over in this discussion. Rarely do govt agencies think things all the way through.

Your thoughts?
Not much for you to concern yourself with anymore 'cause the RBRA proposal submitted to the Sausalito City Council, but temporarily delayed by the City Manager who wants to consult "with his citizens" first before approving funding, does not include any sort of anchoring scenario. It is going to be a mooring field only Plan. Boats entering the Bay and anchoring will either be short term or if not "on a ball". So, unless it's changed the 72 hour in 7 days rule will apply. This is not going to go down without a fight. Guaranteed.
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Old 03-09-2015, 10:30   #739
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I'm a long time liveaboard(25years). I havn't read all these posts but I've heard alot of these complaints over the years.
I figure an excellent liveaboard area has a lifespan of about 5years.
After that its time to:
A. move ashore
B. Fight change (developers,overcrowding, city hall)
C. Move.(my favorite) I like movement.
Living aboard(to me) should be dynamic, not static. Everything changes.
One thing doesn't change tho. There will always be nice places for your boat. You have to find them while they're nice and leave them when they stop being nice. That's All
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:49   #740
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quill has it correct... Living aboard by its nature is a dynamic environment. The boat is moving all the time as you are. We enhanced our liveaboard experience by regularly cruising, enjoying the change of scenery and the different folks we met along the way. Because we lived a board in SoCal, we had the opportunity to include a foreign country in our travels. Mexico brought a whole different lifestyle and life experience from language, food, scenery and culture.
Cruising in Western Canadian waters offered the same changes... Breathtaking scenery, wonderful warm people and a unique culture.
The dozen or so years we lived aboard both sail and power boats were some of the best of our lives. I highly recommend it to those with even the smallest amount of adventure in their psyche. Phil
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Old 03-09-2015, 15:17   #741
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by quill View Post
.............
.......................... I like movement.
Living aboard(to me) should be dynamic, not static. Everything changes.
One thing doesn't change tho. There will always be nice places for your boat. You have to find them while they're nice and leave them when they stop being nice.

............................... That's All
Well said! We often return to many favorite places, but most of them are only good for us as a stay for a few days or sometimes a month. Our only longer stays are in places where we meet with family members that are also living aboard or in the neighborhood.

Even when we remain for a while in one place, we are more attentive to changes than those in houses,- more aware of cycles in tide, current, moon, highs & lows, whether the wind is "clocking" or "backing". Dynamic is a good descriptor for living aboard. Many in houses are just aware of day & night!
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Old 03-09-2015, 17:04   #742
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
Depends on the location. The mooring field in Sarasota Bay in front of Marina Jacks for instance seems to have plenty of space and the mooring balls are designed for a Cat 5 storm (or so I have been told), you have access to full list of amenities (below) and for our size boat runs $270 a month. It's a premier location.

• Engineered Mooring
• Full Service Mooring Staff
• Shower/Restroom Facilities
• Pumpout Vessel
• Mail Service
Laundry Facilities
Dinghy Dockage
• Fuel Dock/Ship Store
• Trash & Recycling Service
• Potable Water
• Temporary Slip For Loading/Repairs
• Wi-Fi Access

I read they have recently added a water taxi to ferry boaters to shore, for a fee I'm sure. Sounds like luxury living for a mooring field.
i just read your replies about living aboard...people like you two make me feel more positive about living aboard i know plenty of people in Sarasota and this sounds like a lovely place...the boat you have is my dream boat so thank you for putting some positive feed in to what seems at times not such a happy forum!... mark
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Old 05-10-2015, 11:30   #743
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Last week Oregon Public Broadcasting aired a radio program Between A Dock And A Hard Place . Radio | OPB focusing on what some call "Aquatic Squatters" on the Willamette River in downtown Portland.
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Old 09-10-2015, 14:15   #744
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

We have found when cruising that it is better to describe yourself as being on a vacation cruise when dealing with people. That seems to be something they can assimilate better.
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