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Old 15-07-2015, 14:15   #706
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quote:
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Both of you illustrate a fundamental problem here, starting with weavis' post #647. You volunteer condemnatory comments directed at me without linking to posts I've made in this forum that support your assertions.

Nor can you.
It's sad when someone you know becomes someone you knew.

Goodbye wrong.
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Old 15-07-2015, 16:00   #707
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I wish I could pass the gift of esteem and respect to all and start anew with respect for all! .....'sounds like Tiny Tim or Jimminy Cricket
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Old 15-07-2015, 16:14   #708
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Mr. Wrong,

Before I leave this thread, I wanted to say "thank you for your service."

I hope you are able to be well.

Ann T. Cate
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Old 15-07-2015, 16:39   #709
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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I just want to add that there is room enough in Richardson Bay to divide the area into two areas, a mooring field and an anchorage.

The area reserved for anchoring must come with minimum standards that must be met before dropping your hook. The standards could reasonably take the time of year into account.


2.) Because of the fact Richardson Bay can be affected by strong winter storms with wind gusts upwards of 40 knots, arriving from the north and south quadrants, boats must have adequately sized primary and secondary anchors. The primary anchor must be connected to the boat with all chain and snubbed.
I anchor off Sausalito often.

Questions about these suggestions:

A. I have a 34 foot boat with 50 feet of chain and 150 feet of 1/2" rode.

minimum standards that must be met before dropping your hook. The standards could reasonably take the time of year into account.

Do these standards allow me to anchor with this gear? It works for me, but who comes out to check? I don't anchor there during the winter when storms are forecast.

B. With my anchoring gear, which has lasted for the past 17 years all over The Bay, Paradise Cove, Clipper Cove, all over The Delta, Drakes Bay, Half Moon Bay and to Monterey, I will not be in conformance with the all chain?

The primary anchor must be connected to the boat with all chain and snubbed.

Does this mean I have to buy more chain? If so, why, since it's been working for me.

These guidelines are "nice to haves" but some can be considered not necessary. I have often responded to "anchoring" posts on this and other boating forums by recommending that anchoring systems be sized properly. I have designed and installed mine which work for up to 42 knots for my boat. But it's not all chain.
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Old 15-07-2015, 17:04   #710
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post

<snip>

Apologise to SailorChic34 as a start, stop thinking people are criticising you personally instead of your displayed attitude, and we can all move on happily and willingly forget the bad feelings.

This is your part of the deal. We have done everything else.

Quote whatever I said to SailorChic34 that you believe is deserving of an apology. She has participated in the discussion from beginning to end, never reporting anything I said to the moderators that may have offended her in any way. She has been and remains perfectly capable of speaking for herself.
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Old 15-07-2015, 17:39   #711
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
I anchor off Sausalito often.

Questions about these suggestions:

A. I have a 34 foot boat with 50 feet of chain and 150 feet of 1/2" rode.

minimum standards that must be met before dropping your hook. The standards could reasonably take the time of year into account.

Do these standards allow me to anchor with this gear? It works for me, but who comes out to check? I don't anchor there during the winter when storms are forecast.
My understanding is the proposed minimum will be five to one scope. Prudence though, for anyone planning to stay in the designated anchorage throughout the winter, will dictate two to three times the minimum required amount of chain. I have 130' of 5/16" chain, but like you leave the bay when a storm is forecast.

There is a 72 hour period in which anyone can anchor before being required to obtain a permit and submit the boat to inspection. It is during the inspection that a check on ground tackle will occur. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not anyone anchored during the 72 hour period will be subject to inspection. I assume the sheriff or other law enforcement officer afloat will be involved in enforcement matters.

Quote:
B. With my anchoring gear, which has lasted for the past 17 years all over The Bay, Paradise Cove, Clipper Cove, all over The Delta, Drakes Bay, Half Moon Bay and to Monterey, I will not be in conformance with the all chain?
Depends upon what the depth is in the designated anchorage and what the final minimum requirement will be. If the depth is 10' and the minimum attainable scope is 5 to one, your 50' of chain will meet the minimum requirement.

Quote:
The primary anchor must be connected to the boat with all chain and snubbed.

Does this mean I have to buy more chain? If so, why, since it's been working for me.

These guidelines are "nice to haves" but some can be considered not necessary. I have often responded to "anchoring" posts on this and other boating forums by recommending that anchoring systems be sized properly. I have designed and installed mine which work for up to 42 knots for my boat. But it's not all chain.
The reason for the standards is too many boaters endanger other boats and private property by virtue of their poor anchoring skills and inadequate tackle. You are obviously not one of the types of boaters described above, and have the good sense to leave Sausalito when a storm threatens. Once the plan is in place, If I were you I'd visit Bill Price, share your experience with him and describe your tackle. Let him know you leave the bay when storms threaten and ask if you'll be o.k.? My guess is he'll probably say you're o.k..
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Old 15-07-2015, 17:44   #712
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Mr. Wrong,

Before I leave this thread, I wanted to say "thank you for your service."

I hope you are able to be well.

Ann T. Cate
Thanks Ann.
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Old 15-07-2015, 18:58   #713
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quote:
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...The reason for the standards is too many boaters endanger other boats and private property by virtue of their poor anchoring skills and inadequate tackle...
Hogwash.
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Old 17-07-2015, 10:57   #714
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrong View Post


The reason for the standards is too many boaters endanger other boats and private property by virtue of their poor anchoring skills and inadequate tackle. You are obviously not one of the types of boaters described above, and have the good sense to leave Sausalito when a storm threatens. Once the plan is in place, If I were you I'd visit Bill Price, share your experience with him and describe your tackle. Let him know you leave the bay when storms threaten and ask if you'll be o.k.? My guess is he'll probably say you're o.k..
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed answer to my questions.

It confuses me a lot though. After all the thought out "requirements", do I understand correctly that the very first thing you're suggesting is that I get a personal exemption from Bill? How would he know me from Adam?

I see no reason that adequate chain & line rode shouldn't be allowed. I agree, I wouldn't be there in the winter anyway.

Maybe all the chain should be for "certain conditions." Predicted storms, winter between November and February, winds in excess of (wait!!! summer winds can be strong as winter ones, although from the west there's no fetch...).

Do you see the limitations of the rules you've suggested?
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Old 17-07-2015, 17:55   #715
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed answer to my questions.

It confuses me a lot though. After all the thought out "requirements", do I understand correctly that the very first thing you're suggesting is that I get a personal exemption from Bill? How would he know me from Adam?
I'm speaking from a vantage point where I've personally found Bill to be pretty flexible in dealing with my specific needs. Frank honesty goes a long way with him.

Quote:
I see no reason that adequate chain & line rode shouldn't be allowed. I agree, I wouldn't be there in the winter anyway.
Quote:
Maybe all the chain should be for "certain conditions." Predicted storms, winter between November and February, winds in excess of (wait!!! summer winds can be strong as winter ones, although from the west there's no fetch...).

Do you see the limitations of the rules you've suggested?
They're not rules I've suggested, only heard as possible. If it was up to me I'd probably recommend ground tackle capable of handling a worst case scenario. The more chain the better and while I favour chain over rode, lots of rode too... But more important yet is having a storm contingency plan that finds boaters favouring an exit from the bay or taking shelter in marinas with empty slips.
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Old 17-07-2015, 18:58   #716
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

So, the rel issue may be simple:

The proposed rules are for anchor outs who stay awhile.

The rules don't hafta apply for us folks who wanna go into the anchorage on a leisurely basis.

That's why rules for anchorages start making less & less sense to me all the time.

The first thing outta the box is a modification to the basic rules.

Do you begin to understand my hesitation over this concept?

I'm in Sausalito now, at Schoonmaker.

Want some flix?
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Old 17-07-2015, 19:29   #717
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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So, the rel issue may be simple:

The proposed rules are for anchor outs who stay awhile.
Nope. Everyone. The only boaters likely to get a pass stay no longer than 72 hours in both the designated anchorage and mooring field on a mooring.

Quote:
The rules don't hafta apply for us folks who wanna go into the anchorage on a leisurely basis.
Only if you stay less than 72 hours.

Quote:
That's why rules for anchorages start making less & less sense to me all the time.

The first thing outta the box is a modification to the basic rules.

Do you begin to understand my hesitation over this concept?

I'm in Sausalito now, at Schoonmaker.

Want some flix?
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Old 18-07-2015, 09:50   #718
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
So, the rel issue may be simple:

The proposed rules are for anchor outs who stay awhile.

The rules don't hafta apply for us folks who wanna go into the anchorage on a leisurely basis.

That's why rules for anchorages start making less & less sense to me all the time.

The first thing outta the box is a modification to the basic rules.

Do you begin to understand my hesitation over this concept?

I'm in Sausalito now, at Schoonmaker.

Want some flix?
Presently the RBRA is in the process of securing funding to support development and implementation of the proposed plan. This plan's central feature will be establishment of a port installed, managed and maintained mooring field. To learn more about how you can participate in discussions that will ultimately contribute to the promulgation of rules affecting everyone who will occupy a mooring, or who plans on anchoring in the "designated anchorage" - which is another feature of the plan - visit this, the Richardson Bay Regional Agency web page: Richardson's Bay Regional Agency, Marin County, California Use the contact and other information provided there to organize your input and attendance to RBRA meetings.
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Old 18-07-2015, 10:29   #719
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

As a former resident of San Rafael, I spent many nights and weeks cruising the Bay and Delta area. I thank my lucky stars that I don't have to put up with 'do gooder' intrusions into my lifestyle like the RBRA.
It has been many years since I lived in the area and the reason I left was because of exactly this type of unwanted oversight of my lifestyle. Sure, there were some vessels permanently anchored in the Richardson Bay Area that would be considered by some to be eyesores, particularly by the million $ homeowners in the Tiburon peninsula, but these folks have a right to live their lives without interference like the rest of us. Because they have a different standard is no reason to force them out of their lifestyle and way of life.
Whether it is Federal, State or local government, who gives these folks the right to dictate where and how other members of society live?
I have lived and cruised from Mexico to Alaska and the same types seem to gravitate to positions of power through local agencies.
As long as there are no safety or health issues let them be.
I, for one, have had enough! Phil
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Old 18-07-2015, 10:47   #720
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Unsubscribed due to over-moderation of my posts.
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