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Old 30-04-2014, 08:46   #46
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Where I keep my boat it's not the liveaboards that are the problems, it's the drunk partiers that come on weekends that are the issue, but that's a marina

Yup...Especially when they end up beside you...Just wait until you go cruising...that's when you'll want to anchor out.
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Old 30-04-2014, 09:27   #47
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Re: Are liveaboards unwanted? disliked? all over everywhere?

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The Philippines are more welcoming and don't you know...
"It's more fun in the Philippines!"

oo talaga!
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Old 30-04-2014, 09:32   #48
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

We been a live aboard for 17 years and was forced once to vacate because the marina changed to non live a boards because of city/state pressure. Some marines are non live a boards as they do not want to deal with the city/state. In the Seattle/Puget Sound area marinas have a max of 7% by state law. Most states have a max %. Each year live a boards have to fill out a multi page questioner, documented prove that the boat is pumped out on a regular bases, prove of insurance and current state registration/tabs. However, there are some cities/towns/areas that do not allow live a boards, but most of those are high value affluent areas. The live aboard fee ranges from 50 to 250 dollars depending on the area/marina. Everett’s fee is 75 dollars on Lake Union we paid 150.

5+ years ago when marinas were full and had waiting lists more marinas did not allow live a boards, but now since most have vacancies and/or short waiting lists they are now allowing live a boards again. Everett pulls the boats that do not have current tabs, behind on payments, not maintained and many are auctioned off. Also the police will walk the docks and ticket boats with out current tabs. So both live aboard and non live a boards are held to a standard. Anchoring is limited or not allowed in most areas.

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Old 30-04-2014, 09:52   #49
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Everett pulls the boats that do not have current tabs, behind on payments, not maintained and many are auctioned off. Also the police will walk the docks and ticket boats with out current tabs. So both live aboard and non live a boards are held to a standard.
That's interesting that they can easily do that. In many areas of the country the laws make it more difficult to do that. In fact in one situation a marina was easily able to take action against a non-paying boat that was not lived aboard much using a mechanic's type lien, but one boat that was lived on and way behind in payments could not have possession taken or any other action easily because they were ruled a home and so had to go through foreclosure and eviction procedures. Finally the marina just gave up and told them if they'd just leave they'd let them off the hook for the unpaid bills. The owners then said they couldn't afford to leave unless they'd give them some money to get them on their way. So they paid a boat that was now 9 months behind in it's slip lease $2500 to leave. Including legal fees they figure the entire episode cost them close to $10,000.

In some states it's even difficult disposing of clearly abandoned boats.
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Old 30-04-2014, 09:58   #50
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I've met a number of live aboards and anchor outs. Most, even many of the shabby ones turn out to be ok folks. Sure lots of anchor outs drink a bit, but that seems to be more of a "boating" issue then just anchor outs. A few have mental problems. Most are just trying to get by day to day. Living on a pension, social security, etc. Yes there are even some bad apples, but only a few.

In Sausolito for example, the general consensus is ALL anchor outs are bad. Yet few have actually met any or care to. Yes many, maybe even most discharge overboard. Though I've seen some that do move to a pump out station too. Thing is on a yearly basis, the Sausolito (Richmond and SF too) waste treatment systems dumps way more raw sewage into the bay during heavy rains. Yet the wild life flourish in the area. There is more of a problem with poop discharge in marinas, least at the ones I've stayed at.

As others have mentioned fertilizers, pesticides and oils from roads are far more damaging to the environment then organic waste, which the environment can easily deal with.

Yes there are going to be trashy boats too, though I would not call "Flying Hawaiian" trashy. Its actually pretty clean looking and yes its still in Richardson bay and still floating on its lines too. To the land folks, all anchorouts are bad/evil, druggie/criminals. Yet I've not found that to be the case. But then I is one.

Of course my idea of a trashy boat may be less strict then some. Too me, no sails, many times no mast or boom, with tons O junk on decks can be trashy. I expect my boat is trashy to the folks with $500k+ boats and the yacht club crowd. Lord knows it's been 15-20 years since the gel coat was shiny. I prefer the term salty thank you very much. Though the marina's I visit, don't have issues with my boats appearance and welcome me back. Though ok, that might not be due to the boat.

More often its the land folks that don't want the anchor outs cluttering up their views that is the limiting factor on anchor outs.
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Old 30-04-2014, 10:08   #51
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

The issue I have with commercial Marina's is the ones that claim to welcome liveaboards have so many rules that I would never want to live under such kind of dictatorship. One of which is the rules that make it nearly impossible to maintain your boat in the slip, can't varnish, can't sand, no painting, cannot clean the bottom, and the list goes on and on and on. in essence, all they want you to do is sit on your deck chair and drink a glass of wine, and then they wonder why people do not maintain their boats. well..... stupid (marina management), how can people do maintenance when you do not let them?

OOOhhhhh I get it. they want you to pull the boat out and pay their "Shipwrights" $90 hr to fix all your issues. So it ALL about the $$$$$.
Marinas want you to be their cash cow, the minute you "fix" something yourself, they will scream "Environmental hazard" but in essence, it is just their way of getting rid of anyone that they think they are not making enough money on.

Oh and since when do I not have the right to be on my boat 24-7 when I pay for the slip 24-7 already? liveaboard or no liveaboard, I am paying for the slip and the utilities. But the "dock cops" ( gestapo spies) are making sure you are not staying on your boat more than 7 days a month? So does that mean I get a refund if I am only using my boat 1/3rd of the time that I am paying for the slip? ahhhh of course not.

And we all sit back and let these marinas do this do us. ayayay
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Old 30-04-2014, 10:11   #52
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I don't agree that the "cluttering up of the view" is necessarily the deciding factor in all areas. I live on the water and often have boats anchored out in view of my house. We, and our neighbors, all think the boats are beautiful and it's not unusual to find us taking pictures of them. From 100 feet away it's unlikely anyone can really tell how shiny your gelcoat is. But if you have boxes, bags, cans, tarps and junk draped all over it, especially if it never moves, then it is an eyesore. If you make a nuisance of yourself while on land as well with drunkeness or abuse of facilities that you don't pay for then you compound the problem. If your house/property on land were in similar condition, and you were crapping in the neighbor's yard, the neighbors would probably likewise complain and depending on where you live you would most likely be getting a notice from your local municipality that you needed to clean it up.

I'm not saying that by any means this describes most cruisers/liveaboards, as I don't believe that it does. But I have encountered these people and they make it bad for the rest. Take for example BandB's post about the derelict, delinquent boat that had to be paid to leave. How anxious do you think that marina owner will be to welcome liveaboards in the future?
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Old 30-04-2014, 10:14   #53
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by leightonyachts View Post

And we all sit back and let these marinas do this do us. ayayay
Please. Do tell how we 'let' them do it to us?

I look at prices for boating supplies in general and intake a deep breath.

I dont "allow" them to do it to me...... I have no choice.
I either pay the price and suffer the rules or I go somewhere else and dont get a better deal.

Wealthy boaters just pay.

The rest of us HAVE to pay because we are not wealthy but still have boats.
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Old 30-04-2014, 10:24   #54
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Please. Do tell how we 'let' them do it to us?

I look at prices for boating supplies in general and intake a deep breath.

I dont "allow" them to do it to me...... I have no choice.
I either pay the price and suffer the rules or I go somewhere else and dont get a better deal.

Wealthy boaters just pay.

The rest of us HAVE to pay because we are not wealthy but still have boats.
Dont worry i'm including myself in my venting and share your pain. I just wish we somehow could have some leverage to change the "Unreasonable rules" to make it palatable for liveaboards and give us the ability to maintain our boats ourselves. Even the DIY yards are getting far and few in between. To rebuild my wooden schooner, there was only 2 marinas in the whole state of Washington that would accept it. Now I have to travel 1.5 hrs each way every Saturday to work on it. But now I am getting off subject of the thread hahaha.
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Old 30-04-2014, 10:30   #55
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Live, sounds like you're a former or current OTR driver. If so you already know the answer. We drivers are often thrown out of places because of the few bad apples. Used to be a huge dirt lot directly across the street from the Walmart DC in Arcadia, FL. plenty of parking before and after your appointment.

After spending time, effort, and money the owner drove telephone poles into the ground blocking it all off. All because of a few bad apples, everyone gets to suffer.

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Old 30-04-2014, 10:31   #56
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

As for the DIY boatyards, how many are out of business due to lack of demand? A lot of people hire someone not because of restrictions, but because they don't have the time or skills.

In this area, two DIY were sold in the last couple of years and one closed while the other restructured itself into a high end yacht commissioning and maintenance yard.
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Old 30-04-2014, 10:31   #57
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Poor guy got tired of cleaning up after people. You know how some of these steering wheel holders are.

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Old 30-04-2014, 10:45   #58
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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...Thing is on a yearly basis, the Sausalito (Richmond and SF too) waste treatment systems dumps way more raw sewage into the bay during heavy rains. Yet the wild life flourish in the area. There is more of a problem with poop discharge in marinas, least at the ones I've stayed at.

As others have mentioned fertilizers, pesticides and oils from roads are far more damaging to the environment then organic waste, which the environment can easily deal with.

More often its the land folks that don't want the anchor outs cluttering up their views that is the limiting factor on anchor outs.
That Sausalito regular sewage discharge is frightening. And the other issue is that the sewer district gets fined (just a little) by the State every time it happens, so the taxpayers get to pay for it twice!

I find it interesting reading these threads, that there seems to be a great difference in attitudes between different parts of the country. Seems we're more fortunate than most here in Northern California than almost anywhere else.

Oh, that agency that the Tiburon guy's wife got started? BCDC: SFBCDC - San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission A bunch of landlubbers who know nothing about the water, play damned environmentalists, and have generally limited waterfront access to all.

Rec Boats in California is a great agency, takes the fuel taxes from boaters, builds ramps, distributes grants, improves things and is self sustaining financially. That's why every few years the governor or legislature or both try to get their hands on the money and stick it into the always losing general fund. Just more crooks.
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Old 30-04-2014, 11:06   #59
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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I just wish we somehow could have some leverage to change the "Unreasonable rules" to make it palatable for liveaboards and give us the ability to maintain our boats ourselves. Even the DIY yards are getting far and few in between. To rebuild my wooden schooner, there was only 2 marinas in the whole state of Washington that would accept it. Now I have to travel 1.5 hrs each way every Saturday to work on it. But now I am getting off subject of the thread hahaha.
Who decides what rules are "unreasonable?" Directly, the owner gets to decide. It's his business being run to make a profit. Indirectly, it's the customers who decide. The majority who will make his business profitable. Most people who rent slips and come to use them on the weekend prefer not to have hammering, sanding, and painting taking place in the slip next to them. Owners don't want a dock full of unhappy boaters. Now some marinas have time and place for such. Some don't. You talk about a place to rebuild your schooner. I understand your frustration. But I don't see where anyone did anything wrong to you. No one is under an obligation to run a DIY yard and set up a place for you. Why are yards closing? Because it's not profitable. People invest in marinas and boatyards to make a profit.

I get frustrated on land sometimes that there are not businesses that provide certain services the way I wish they did. All the time. Every day there's something that I wish was operated differently.
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Old 30-04-2014, 11:50   #60
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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I find it interesting reading these threads, that there seems to be a great difference in attitudes between different parts of the country. Seems we're more fortunate than most here in Northern California than almost anywhere else.
I have found that northern California is more relaxed then other places. For example, while most marinas have laws about not working on the boat, in northern California, that generally means no major repairs. I've done sanding, varnishing, etc at the dock. Even last years engine rebuild was at a dock and the harbor master had no issues with me rebuilding my engine in the cockpit. He even gave me suggestions. So not exactly the same as Socal.

Mind you, I do my work during the week, when the weekenders are away. Plus when at a dock, I keep the boat clean enough that I can leave the marina within 10 minutes. But I may be the exception to the rule.

Today on the other hand, I'm doing woodworking in the cabin, on the hook of course, with not another soul in sight... Lovely day.
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