Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[SURV69]

I agree about a person using the public waters for one's own gain, but is that any less than Ford, GM Motors, Firestone Rubber, Steel factories, Nuclear power plants, Hydroelectric dams, oil refineries and so-forth ... and so-forth ... and so-forth?...

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Let me add emphasis to this request. Obvioulsy, the topic of the thread is "political" in nature, but it will be the downfall of the discussion if we fall into the trap of bashing the govenment, political parties, taxes or those that stand to the "left" or "right"!

Er.. I "dress" on the right thank you. I dont stand.

However as I get older Im thinking standing might be a more appropriate term......

[weavis]

Boating is not inexpensive.

However, with the proper approach, and a frugal (not cheap) outlook, it can be enjoyed cheaply.

Im currently reading atolls build... He purchases frugally. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1858819

Amazing..... Good work that man!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by weavis

Stu.
Secondly, I have observed a slight rising in poor peoples finances so that they are not absolutely on the deck, (Mentally ill and incompetents aside)-and coincidentally, a lowering of the middle earners to just above subsistence level.

At least in my part of the world I see the same, the catch 22 seems to be that you can live better on welfare than you can by working fast food, retail, food service etc., so why work? Being that most of those jobs are part time and without benefits it just doesn't pay.
While especially the working guy's and gals are getting by with less and less, often from what I see worse living conditions than the ones that don't work.

You guys's watch much TV? seen the growing "tiny house" movement, subsistence living etc? I don't think tiny houses has anything at all to do with it, I think especially younger people who work hard, but don't want to go on or can't go on the government dole are trying to find an affordable way to live, for them the "American Dream" is dead, they are trying to escape the work yourself to death, not break even debt cycle.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

At least in my part of the world I see the same, the catch 22 seems to be that you can live better on welfare than you can by working fast food, retail, food service etc., so why work? Being that most of those jobs are part time and without benefits it just doesn't pay.
While especially the working guy's and gals are getting by with less and less, often from what I see worse living conditions than the ones that don't work.

You guys's watch much TV? seen the growing "tiny house" movement, subsistence living etc? I don't think tiny houses has anything at all to do with it, I think especially younger people who work hard, but don't want to go on or can't go on the government dole are trying to find an affordable way to live, for them the "American Dream" is dead, they are trying to escape the work yourself to death, not break even debt cycle.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by SURV69

I agree about a person using the public waters for one's own gain, but is that any less than Ford, GM Motors, Firestone Rubber, Steel factories, Nuclear power plants, Hydroelectric dams, oil refineries and so-forth ... and so-forth ... and so-forth?...

This sounds suspiciously like you are arguing that two wrongs make a right?

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
Not sure how this relates to my post because I never suggested living in a society doesn't require compromise. The 'anchor out' mentality is not conducive to compromise while clearly, the live aboard cruiser accepts compromise is necessary to sustain the lifestyle.

Valhalla360 said:

It was in regards to your comment about having to work a job you hate. To a degree, you can minimize the stuff you don't like about life but there will always be some undesireable things you have to do if you want to be part of society.

Aaah. But once you've relieved yourself of the stuff and accoutrements called bills there's more latitude gained in what sort of work and work environment you want. Never suggested "no work" was the objective. I moved on and due to my low cost for living aboard found work I enjoyed working with others who for the most part I liked. Could earn less and enjoy a better lifestyle.


What do you consider to be "taking it to an extreme"

Valhalla360 replied: Of course it's shades of gray but for example, there was a thead a year or so ago where gentleman was vehemently defending his right to occupy a very small anchorage in tourist town on pretty much a permanent basis. He could care less the impact on other cruisers or the shore side buisness that catered to cruisers. As far as he was concerned it was his God given right to permanently take over that prime location. Then he gets upset that they are looking at putting in anchoring restirctions.

Typical Sausalito 'anchor out' mentality...

wrong said : Please expound.

Valhalla360 said: A frugle cruiser will anchor out more than use marinas and use the occasional free dock for a day here and there. If another cruser comes in they will make space or if they've been thier for a couple days move out and anchor to make room.

The cheap boater will find a free dock and sit there until someone forces them off. Another cheap boater trick I've seen is they pull into the fuel dock after it closes and head out in the morning before they open and never pay the slip fee.

I could come up with lots of examples but I think you get the point.

Been there, done that...

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by SURV69

I agree about a person using the public waters for one's own gain, but is that any less than Ford, GM Motors, Firestone Rubber, Steel factories, Nuclear power plants, Hydroelectric dams, oil refineries and so-forth ... and so-forth ... and so-forth?...

In Richardson Bay it's not solely a question of at least one diver profiting from an illegal activity - installing illegal moorings - it's the cumulative consequences of the activity. So many boats that never change locations are attached to the illegal moorings there is no room for a prudent sailor to anchor anymore. Eventually those moorings will have to be removed at no small expense borne by the public.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I should note that most anchorouts have no room to compromise and no money or very little money. .

I recognize many have no money or little money. However, compromise does not necessarily mean there is money needed. The compromise could possibly be signing in and subject to some form of inspection. Or it might be nothing other than agreeing to certain rules.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by BandB

I recognize many have no money or little money. However, compromise does not necessarily mean there is money needed. The compromise could possibly be signing in and subject to some form of inspection. Or it might be nothing other than agreeing to certain rules.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by ruby tuesday

a 1 dollar 50 a foot - you'd be sunk if you had to tie up here cos its nearer 4 dollars a foot where i'm tied up and in other marinas near where i slip its the equivalent of 8 or 9 dollars a foot

Per day!!?? I was citing an overnight rate.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by BandB

I recognize many have no money or little money. However, compromise does not necessarily mean there is money needed. The compromise could possibly be signing in and subject to some form of inspection. Or it might be nothing other than agreeing to certain rules.

Oddly the coast guard and local sheriff departments actually do inspections around here. I get papers and head inspected at least once a year it seems.

On a different note about the TV. I've not had a tv for about 10 years now and watched little the previous 10 years. I've not missed it.

There will always be the bad apples out there to take advantage of the situation. I've found that most of the folks are just getting by and playing mostly by the rules. Yes the moorings in Richardson bay are illegal. My contention is that does less damage then a boat poorly anchored that goes walkabout and damages another boat or dock when the winds blow like snot out there. That happens all the time in Richardson bay.

In my mind it's the lessor of two evils, by far.

[SURV69]

valhalla360 ...

I don't intend to say trashing, pollution and abandoning boats is right, but that without trashing, polluting and abandoning boats that the personal use of natural resources for personal gain is not bad.

All the entities I named apply(under threat), more safeguards to protect the environment while still using the public's water for personal gain.

[Hudson Force]

As I'm on the East US Coast and not familiar with Richardson's Bay, I took a look at Google map and counted about 200 boats from Waldo Point down to Sausalito Yacht Club all anchored reasonably near that area with many marinas. This distribution of boats without their presence to the NW suggests that they are located here because of shore access opportunities. Do the marinas in this area allow for the use of their facilities by "anchor outs" with a fee? Are there public access dinghy docks in this area? I support the opportunity for those anchored out to have shore access. Is this shore access the reason why so many boats are located here? Are the other shores on Richardson's Bay all private property?

'just curious.

Oh, ...and that $8 to $9 dollars a foot! Tha't approaching typical monthly rates here. I'm paying $1 per foot/ day for a couple of transient days at
my present location. I remember being at this same place in Coinjock, NC in 1972 for either 5 or 10 cents/ foot! Of course, that's the same as $1/foot now!

[sailorboy1]

In all these anti-live aboard threads it really seems to come down to that there isn't an issue overall with people living on their boats, there's a problems with bums on boats. The problem is that in general all live aboards get caught up in the "solutions" for the bums.