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Old 30-04-2014, 05:43   #31
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Maybe it's time to round up the usual suspects......


Maybe it's the character of the boat & not the crew......


Maybe we can ony accept the pretty ones.......


Maybe all the derelicts don't sink.......


Maybe Tiger covers the name of his boat for "Privacy".........


Maybe the costs of water access is too high.............


Maybe there's still some peaceful place to anchor in Florida.......


Maybe some sailors are just like you.......


We've been living aboard and anchoring in Florida for five decades without complaint. Some places are better than others.
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Old 30-04-2014, 05:52   #32
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

see, even boaters hate liveaboards






just kidding, they only hate boat people trash that give boaters a bad name
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Old 30-04-2014, 05:58   #33
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

One helpful distinction is between cruisers and otherwise. A long-term cruiser, IMO, is moving now and then with no real need to stay where unwanted. Seasonal coastal travel is what most do, even while nodding to trans-oceanic voyagers.

If you're tied to a shore job (or need), you're a liveaboard, like it or not, and should expect to pay for the few amenities you require. I too remember when things were easier, free, and the world more accommodating but that was then.

Build yourself a shower, go three miles off the beach to pump out legally, catch rain when you can without a permanent plastic tarp, use the boat, entertain yourself, exercise your brain, fish and forage for food when you can, drop the need to be intoxicated daily to enjoy yourself; in short, minimize the need to go ashore. Be a cruiser.

End of story. The ugly issues in Fl, in particular, are tied to a few communities where there are jobs and people. And yes, Georgia is scenic but so are a lot of friendlier places with fewer bugs and fresher breezes.

And a poster above reminds us to know the law. Yepper, that's important, fer sure fer sure, and you might try to roll that out politely at first in a discussion with a water cop but better be ready to move on or face dire straits. Go along to get along.
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Old 30-04-2014, 05:59   #34
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

From what I can tell, they only hate liveaboards in some places in the US and NZ because a lot of stuffed up people there. This is probably true of australia, and any other country which was spoiled by british influence (if the national language is english)

San francisco bay had one anchorage that was good for example, wellington new zealand is allowed, but you have to be insane to anchor when it blows 40 knots every other day and 60 knots every month.

Everywhere else is fine.

I am the only sailboat anchored in a city of over 1 million but there are plenty of people living on boats all around me here. I have high speed internet, a great market, very cheap, and lots of free stuff. Sail to borneo.
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:18   #35
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pirate Re: Are liveaboards unwanted? disliked? all over everywhere?

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IIRC, the anti-liveaboard movement in SF Bay was started by some rich guy in Tibouron's wife who ran off with a liveaboard from Richardson Bay. This so pissed off the guy that he started a campaign and was instrumental in creating an oversight agency for the bay. My memory fails as to names and agencies but archives from Latitude 38 may fill in the details. So we not only ruin views, poop and pollute, we run off with land lubber's wives.
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:20   #36
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I think communities differentiate between live aboard a that never move and live on derelict boats and those who are cruisers and stay the winter on for a few months at a time.
I have never felt unwanted in Florida and really have not had a problem in any of the east coast states as I cruised thru. But then again I never stay put long enough.
As far as costs associated with showers dockage etc it's a shame it is so expensive but the owners of marinas have a lock on the good land pay a lot of taxes for waterfront property so they have to charge. There are just to many people in the USA today to find a nice long term cove.
Just saying all those inconveniences go along with the life style.
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:21   #37
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Sail to borneo.
If I did, wouldn't there be a risk of Borneo being spoilt by my British influence
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:24   #38
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pirate Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
From what I can tell, they only hate liveaboards in some places in the US and NZ because a lot of stuffed up people there. This is probably true of australia, and any other country which was spoiled by british influence (if the national language is english)

San francisco bay had one anchorage that was good for example, wellington new zealand is allowed, but you have to be insane to anchor when it blows 40 knots every other day and 60 knots every month.

Everywhere else is fine.
Wot a load off bollox... try living aboard on the hook in Brazil.. the fact is if you want to live in a city.. get a flat.. boats are not meant for that..
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:27   #39
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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If I did, wouldn't there be a risk of Borneo being spoilt by my British influence
Dont have to worry about it old boy. My Dad and his Gurkha chums already established the welcomed British presence........
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:56   #40
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capttman View Post
SNIP

There are just to many people in the USA today to find a nice long term cove.

SNIP
This is the crux of the matter. I have lived and sailed in Florida since 1954. Places that use to be deserted are now crowded, and some of the crowd is composed of gold card captains and folks looking for a place with lower rent than on land.

I still say the law of supply and demand is the controlling factor. There is more demand for goods and services cruisers need than the supply of those goods and services in many places in the us.



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Old 30-04-2014, 07:58   #41
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

When we spent several months in Flordia we were careful to indicate were were "cruisers" and were always warmly welcomed even if we were staying a few weeks or in one case even a month.

When we came across "liveaboards" who had a well kept boat and didn't cause problems, they never indicated feeling any ill will directed towards thier liveaboard lifestyle.

It's the bad apples who have a derelick boat (or at least it looks like it) who stay forever and abuse the situation. They get the locals ire up and they spawn the rules that sometimes catch "cruisers" up by accident.
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Old 30-04-2014, 08:00   #42
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Re: Are liveaboards unwanted? disliked? all over everywhere?

Where have I seen this sort of banter before? Fox? CNN?
There are good x, and there are bad x.
The bad x "abusing the facilities, who have their trash and beer cans everywhere, you disturb others, who have boats in total disrepair"

The good x keep up appearances.

When can we move beyond this comic-book, childish bad-guy country vs good-guy country, or bad football team vs MY football team BS paradigm.

Having your boat in disrepair reflects more on most people's money situation than it does their character, which is what really matters, and a person's character can take years to truly know, and you cannot lump people into such groups so simply. If you do, who's going to be the batman? Who's going to be the Punisher? I guarantee you, who ever it will be, it will be the 1%'s hitman and not about real justice at all.

So yes, there may be 1 or 2 terrible neighbors where-ever you go, punish them, don't generalize. Generalizing, such as they do here, is SO childish. GrowTFU. For God sakes. The people of this country aren't as stupid as they say.
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Old 30-04-2014, 08:13   #43
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Re: Are liveaboards unwanted? disliked? all over everywhere?

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...
I collect free water from God ...
Oops! Ya forgot about the rain tax!
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Old 30-04-2014, 08:40   #44
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Re: Are liveaboards unwanted? disliked? all over everywhere?

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Unfortunately, the good live aboards have suffered from the bad just as the landowner who doesn't mind the good live aboard anchored out has suffered from the landowner who hates them all.

The solution is hard to come by but ultimately it's both sides giving just a bit. As a live aboard who is decent you need to help with means to limit those who aren't. Those who do trash the waters you respect, who do steal from other live aboards the moment they turn their backs, who do get drunk or high on a daily basis and disturb others. As a landowner you need to help with means to limit the unreasonable level of restrictions some landowners want.

Both sides need to recognize that it's not going to be "anything goes" nor is it going to be "nothing goes." As one who uses marinas more than I anchor, I love and hate live aboards at marinas. Those who are abusing the facilities, who have their trash and beer cans everywhere, you disturb others, who have boats in total disrepair and who I wouldn't trust them or their friends an inch bother me and I prefer not being docked adjacent to them. But then those who are honest, clean, decent, trustworthy persons I like having there, especially if I'm keeping a boat there for a while. They are like a good neighborhood watch. They are the ones who catch and stop people who don't belong on the docks, who see boats that appear to be taking on water before it's too late, who notice other problems and just keep the "neighborhood" nicer.

So it's not unlike a land neighborhood. Good neighbors and bad. Now if we all had a hundred acres or more we wouldn't care about neighbors, just as if we had the anchorages to ourselves we wouldn't have that concern. But most of us live in crowded neighborhoods so we have zoning laws. Most who choose to live in marinas or in anchorages are also close to neighbors so, in effect, benefit from some form of restrictions. If all neighbors were good, we'd need no rules, but that's unfortunately not the way life is.

As to saying everyone hates live aboards, it's just not true anymore than saying all live aboards hate weekend boaters. Are they limited and restricted in many areas? Yes. But I'm in one of the most crowded boating states and there are plenty of marinas here who allow live aboards. Do they pay more? Yes, because they use more.

I hope both sides can continue working to find solutions that make it better for all. To those of you who cause no problems, who are good neighbors, I'm sorry when you're lumped with others who are opposite to you. Unfortunately, it pushes even the most kind hearted. Oriental was as prime an example as ever. As tolerant and friendly a community as possible. Yes, look at the anger and problems one abuser of the privileges stirred up. And who was hurt most? Not those living on land. No, Cruisers. Those who typically would have anchored in the area but found it uncomfortable to do so. That and those who otherwise tried helping them.

So to the question. Are liveaboards unwanted? Some are by some people. Are they disliked? Some are by some people. Is this true everywhere? Some is in some places. Blanket statements, grouping of people and attitudes seldom leads to accurate portrayals.
Many great points here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveaboardL View Post
Where have I seen this sort of banter before? Fox? CNN?
There are good x, and there are bad x.
The bad x "abusing the facilities, who have their trash and beer cans everywhere, you disturb others, who have boats in total disrepair"

The good x keep up appearances.

When can we move beyond this comic-book, childish bad-guy country vs good-guy country, or bad football team vs MY football team BS paradigm.

Having your boat in disrepair reflects more on most people's money situation than it does their character, which is what really matters, and a person's character can take years to truly know, and you cannot lump people into such groups so simply. If you do, who's going to be the batman? Who's going to be the Punisher? I guarantee you, who ever it will be, it will be the 1%'s hitman and not about real justice at all.

So yes, there may be 1 or 2 terrible neighbors where-ever you go, punish them, don't generalize. Generalizing, such as they do here, is SO childish. GrowTFU. For God sakes. The people of this country aren't as stupid as they say.
Hey...you're the one who posted this. What did you expect from a forum...everyone agreeing with you and stroking your opinion? Many of us have been lumped into the same category as some troll living on some derelict cement boat with rust stain oozing down it's sides. It only takes a small percentage of these folks to bring down a negative opinion from people who misunderstand the freedom lifestyle of others who are cruising or living in a marina because they like the independence of it.

"Having your boat in disrepair reflects more on most people's money situation than it does their character, which is what really matters, and a person's character can take years to truly know, and you cannot lump people into such groups so simply. If you do, who's going to be the batman? Who's going to be the Punisher? I guarantee you, who ever it will be, it will be the 1%'s hitman and not about real justice at all".

Oh please...step off the philosophers stone for a moment. Harbors have had legitimate problems from "bad" liveaboards for decades. It did not happen overnight. They grow callous to the BS that accompanies the problem.
Case in point...Halfmoon Bay, where I lived aboard my boat for 2 years after a nasty divorce. Out of 70 or so boats, there were 20 liveaboards. One...yes, just one lived on a cement barge with a family that looked more like Hillbillies than anything else with two dogs. They crapped in the harbor, the dogs crapped on the docks and bags of garbage stayed on their deck for days as the dogs munched into it. Ya...I guess I should have taken the time to "truly know" them...pass. The harbor people were constantly talking to them and cleaning up their mess. Eventually they left and another family took over who were completely the opposite and were treated with respect. So please don't ask that we be thrilled when someone abuses the system, take what is not theirs and never cleans up behind them.
Basically l rarely have any problems with liveaboards in marinas. Anchor outs tend to be a different story because most, if they choose, can fly under the radar when it comes to following the guidelines.
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Old 30-04-2014, 08:42   #45
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Where I keep my boat it's not the liveaboards that are the problems, it's the drunk partiers that come on weekends that are the issue, but that's a marina
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