Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Wrong

A quick glance at the mail many receive at 300 Napa, informs us that a considerable number of folks in the anchorage may be receiving social services and financial assistance. .

What? How are you glancing at their mail and then publicly commenting on it?

[Cap Erict3]

My lady's favorite marina has a 79 yr old harbor master that tries to hate boaters and tries harder on live-a-boards. I am fond of the old codger anyway.


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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by BandB

What? How are you glancing at their mail and then publicly commenting on it?

I get my mail there and you must collate in order to find your own. What I see is only the closed envelopes, from & to. Not their mail.

Don't care much for your inference, but there's a be nice policy here on CF. So, I'll defer telling you what I really think...

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

But, you do play by the rules if only minimally or the extent you're comfortable.

I detest boats occupying space in Richardson Bay that have nobody on them.

I know I'm practically a law abiding comformist.

Not to mention all the boats in Marina's that never see use year after year. What I hear you saying is that we need more people on boats..

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Wrong

I get my mail there and you must collate in order to find your own. What I see is only the closed envelopes, from & to. Not their mail.

Don't care much for your inference, but there's a be nice policy here on CF. So, I'll defer telling you what I really think...

I asked a simple question. I've never been in a situation where multiple persons' mail was piled together and any of them could go through it and had never heard of that situation before. Sure seems like it would be open to a lot of problems. There's no inference. There's shock. I hear negative statements about some of those there and would certainly be uncomfortable with them having access to my mail. I've heard of so much mail theft in more secure situations. Rural mailboxes have become a major problem. I assumed you'd only seen the envelopes. However, still a very unique situation.

Now I will say this about Richardson Bay. We were only docked in Sausalito a few weeks, but we encountered no issues from the bay. Perhaps just passing through however we weren't as attuned to any problems as we would be if we lived there.

[markpierce]

Leaving Richardson Bay in the early a.m. The ugly collection of anchored boats is out of sight to port.





Docking overnight at a marina there was expensive, about $1.50 a foot.

[Hudson Force]

Moving back out to the "big picture" as one without any knowledge of Richardson's Bay, I would wish to emphasize tha living aboard is not necessarily accompanied with living with less comfort, security, resources or more dependance on social services.

We are living aboard in the same manner as most of the live-aboards that we know,- fully employed or retired, moderate incomes, often underway or cruising and benefitted by some of the freedoms that come without ownership of a large amount of "stuff".

It's a mistake to associate living aboard only with an atempt to secure low income housing.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I know I'm practically a law abiding comformist.

Not to mention all the boats in Marina's that never see use year after year. What I hear you saying is that we need more people on boats..

Close. But given what we see in Richardson Bay and many other locations in the U.S. littered with unoccupied, unattended and abandoned boats, those locations are not managed. I've been around long enough to know some human beings, if left to their devices in an environment devoid of rules, will ruin the experience for everyone else. In Richardson Bay I believe the worst offenders are in the business of making money. The one's who contribute to the proliferation of dollar boats in the Bay, all in the interest of turning a profit. The diver(s) who ignore a local ordinance requiring they obtain a permit prior to installing moorings. The result is the Bay is filled with illegal moorings over which the RBRA has little or no control. Even if the RBRA was to exercise their authority and attempt to remove these moorings, just imagine the conflict that will follow. And then there's the expense. All because at least one diver wants to make a buck selling or renting the moorings. And it doesn't stop here. The proliferation of oversized 'dingies' which are in fact runabouts, motor boats - call them what you will - are being bought cheap by profiteers and resold to newcomers at a profit.

I've lived aboard mostly on the hook just like you for 25 years. Why would I be opposed to others living aboard their boats? All for it, but it's high time to restore sanity to Richardson Bay.

It's a shame marinas are full of unused boats. But people pay for the privelege and are bound by marina rules. Violate the rules, exit left.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by BandB

I asked a simple question. I've never been in a situation where multiple persons' mail was piled together and any of them could go through it and had never heard of that situation before. Sure seems like it would be open to a lot of problems. There's no inference. There's shock. I hear negative statements about some of those there and would certainly be uncomfortable with them having access to my mail. I've heard of so much mail theft in more secure situations. Rural mailboxes have become a major problem. I assumed you'd only seen the envelopes. However, still a very unique situation.

Now I will say this about Richardson Bay. We were only docked in Sausalito a few weeks, but we encountered no issues from the bay. Perhaps just passing through however we weren't as attuned to any problems as we would be if we lived there.

And the mail situation may get worse. Beginning in July, people who've been receiving their mail at the previously mentioned location will not enjoy handling of their mail that's been kept inside. It will be left in some sort of depository outside near the dingy dock...

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Wrong

And the mail situation may get worse. Beginning in July, people who've been receiving their mail at the previously mentioned location will not enjoy handling of their mail that's been kept inside. It will be left in some sort of depository outside near the dingy dock...

Ok, I saw photos. So am I correct that all the mail is delivered to one box and then whoever just sorts it between the individual box holders, much like a mailbox service except this one is outdoors and there's no control really over who gets the mail and handles and sorts it as opposed to a mailbox facility which is licensed and only the management sorts the mail into boxes which are locked and accessible by key.

With the proliferation of identity theft and theft of checks from mailboxes I'm amazed. I'm sure the only one who exists in the mind of the post office is Galilee Harbor Community Association.

[sailorchic34]

Ah but the diver provides a useful service, in preventing boats from dragging down on others or even damaging a home or dock on Belvaedere. It's capitalism at it's finest. That the RBRA does not approve it, and lord knows they don't approve of much, bothers me not at all.

Then there is folks like the city of berkeley who sell some of those dollar boats. As long as they are removed from Berkeley, it works for them.

The BABR kicked Google's barge out of treasure island that was docked at the old navy pier because they somehow missed that they needed a permit from the RBRA to be docked at a pier. From my perspective the RBRA is a perfect example of too much government.

From the position on the land folk, your boat (and mine) are dollar boats and should just go away. That you pay for a mooring, does not really make much of a difference to the folks with multi-million dollar home's and million dollar yachts. From their point of view, your part of the problem.

That dear sir is why I don't have a problem with the anchor outs. Because its just a step further to get rid of the payed moorings and all anchoring anywhere. I for one don't want the bay area turning into another San Diego. That is what the RBRA wants long term.

[mikeguyver]

Yes, too bad Google didn't bribe the right official isn't it?

[mstrebe]

I'm of two minds about all of this.

I live in San Diego and I'd been out to the A8 anchorage when it was around. It was half abandoned boats, some sunk at anchor. It was a real mess. I went out there once to look at a boat because I wanted something big and cheap, but it was pretty disgusting having been an unkempt live-aboard for years. I'm sure there were some good people there but the bottom line was it had become a hazard to navigation and was making the south bay completely unusable. While I bemoan the lack of a truly free anchorage inside the bay, the bottom line is it will attract freeloaders every time.

Now you can anchor outside the bay at Zuniga point, in the shallows off North Island. Yes, it's directly exposed to the ocean, but it's calm 90% of the time. When the weather comes up, you can move into San Diego Bay and anchor for up to three days. We've never had a storm here last longer than that. Then go back out.

In my opinion, if you can't move your boat, you're freeloading, not living aboard, and you're a hazard to navigation. Those boats come loose in storms and do harm to others that the owner isn't going to remediate. There's no reason why that should be acceptable.

I think San Diego's solution strikes the perfect balance by naturally requiring the boats to move, thus proving that they're in fact seaworthy vessels. Viola. And guess what? There's maybe a dozen boats that do this, down from the 60-odd that were in the A8 anchorage.

There are a few others that live on the hook by rotating around amongst the various free 3 and four day anchorages, and I'm also perfectly fine with that. As long as the boat can move and the owner can move it, that's a live-aboard, not a freeloader on a derelict.

I know guys that live in coves up and down the coast and in Catalina. If you're living on the hook in a remote cove, nobody is going to bother you and you aren't freeloading because there's nothing to freeload from. But it requires a real sailor and a seaworthy vessel. Not a house atop a barge that's taking up dock space from real boats.

Same thing for RVs IMHO: They're the perfect way to live on the cheap here in So Cal. As long as you can move it, go ahead and park at the beach for 72 hours. Then move to another beach. Just don't think that you can camp out in the commons in a broken-down wheeled shack and think everyone else should put up with your appropriation of the commons.

I believe there should be no requirement that people participate in society, and reciprocally, there should also be no requirement that society support them. Those who take nothing and give nothing, I have no problem with. Freeloaders are the people who take and give nothing back, and for them, I have no sympathy.

I spent a few weeks homeless as a young man, after wearing out my welcome on the couches of my parent's friends. I slept in parks, with other homeless people. I realized after a few days that there weren't any kids or families around, because we homeless folk were taking up all of the space and the park had become notorious for petty crimes, which I did see happening. I felt kind of bad about that. The cops would come around sporadically and hassle people, but we'd wander back after a few hours as soon as they were gone. After a week of freezing on the grass knoll of a public park at night, I figured out a way to make a few bucks painting house numbers on curbs and rented a room at a $40 week hotel, where the guy took your cash from behind a grate. I did that until I could take advantage of a government jobs program called the U.S. Navy.

It's important for people to have a way up and a way out, and that's what is often times missing. Also missing are the mental health services that used to exist. Now we've just turned people with mental illness out onto the street and blamed them for being unable to keep a job. I have a tough time being sympathetic to addicts though. That's the definition of just taking.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by mikeguyver

Yes, too bad Google didn't bribe the right official isn't it?

I'm not a big fan of google's but they did have a ton of permits for the barge. No one told them they needed a permit from RBRA. Sort of like KKMI (a haul out yard) needing a permit from the RBRA to work on a boat at their dock, which is done all the time. working on boats in the water, not getting a permit.

A permit from the RBRA is much like hens teeth, a rare thing, and mostly not available.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Moving back out to the "big picture" as one without any knowledge of Richardson's Bay, I would wish to emphasize tha living aboard is not necessarily accompanied with living with less comfort, security, resources or more dependance on social services.

We are living aboard in the same manner as most of the live-aboards that we know,- fully employed or retired, moderate incomes, often underway or cruising and benefitted by some of the freedoms that come without ownership of a large amount of "stuff".

It's a mistake to associate living aboard only with an atempt to secure low income housing.