Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by laika

Hey, let's leave the good folks of MN out of this, eh?

No better place to be in all the world for about 2 weeks in the early fall

Sorry. Guess I should have said Minot, North Dakota...

[laika]

Much better, thx

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Maybe I grew up in a different environment, coming away with a realization that I had to take the initiative to improve my chances for getting a job by augmenting the education I already had and yes, if necessary move to where I could find work.

The realities are that many folks are un-employed for the crime of being too old. I myself am a case in point. It makes fine business sense to fire the 54 year old engineer with 30+ years experience, making $90k a year and hire a greencard carrying immigrant at $40k.

That happened to me and it's happening all the time. It's happening today in silicon valley. They are importing young guys from India and replacing 40-50 year old Americans. That is the reality of the American today.

So now I do free lance consulting at a very low price, because it's what I know and I can do it from a boat anchored out. But I'm a lucky one as I can afford to work cheap as I just don't need much and don't pay apartment rent or own a car. All my clients are happy too, because they get a top shelf engineer for a cad drafting price.

Both of my friends are in their 60's and have medical conditions. They are getting by makes a little money as am I. They don't have money to move elsewhere.

That old, "just get a job", is tricky when your 55-65 and are competing with 20 and 30 year olds for a job, any job. Do you really think a employer will pick a 55-65 year old over a 25 year old. Never happens.

Luckily I'm only a few years away from retirement, and unlike most here, I can live very well on social security. I've been living on a 1/3 of SS for five years now.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

The realities are that many folks are un-employed for the crime of being too old. I myself am a case in point. It makes fine business sense to fire the 54 year old engineer with 30+ years experience, making $90k a year and hire a greencard carrying immigrant at $40k.

That happened to me and it's happening all the time. It's happening today in silicon valley. They are importing young guys from India and replacing 40-50 year old Americans. That is the reality of the American today.

So now I do free lance consulting at a very low price, because it's what I know and I can do it from a boat anchored out. But I'm a lucky one as I can afford to work cheap as I just don't need much and don't pay apartment rent or own a car. All my clients are happy too, because they get a top shelf engineer for a cad drafting price.

Both of my friends are in their 60's and have medical conditions. They are getting by makes a little money as am I. They don't have money to move elsewhere.

That old, "just get a job", is tricky when your 55-65 and are competing with 20 and 30 year olds for a job, any job. Do you really think a employer will pick a 55-65 year old over a 25 year old. Never happens.

Luckily I'm only a few years away from retirement, and unlike most here, I can live very well on social security. I've been living on a 1/3 of SS for five years now.

Yes. But your response to difficulties you've encountered due to your age is iconic. Eximplary. But how many people in Richardson Bay able to do even menial work part time take the initiative? Neither of us know because we don't have that kind of information.

I don't see where impending changes to Richardson Bay have the potential to negatively affect your friends. They'll have two choices. Based on the current fee for using a port mooring, they'll need $150/month if they choose that route. Most likely significantly less if they are subsidized. To use the managed anchorage they'll also need to show proof of ownership and current registration, pass an inspection and have appropriate ground tackle. Free to anchor.

What about having to choose either of these options is going to disrupt their liveaboard lifestyle in Richardson Bay?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

To use the managed anchorage they'll also need to show proof of ownership and current registration, pass an inspection and have appropriate ground tackle. Free to anchor.

What about having to choose either of these options is going to disrupt their liveaboard lifestyle in Richardson Bay?

For my friends not a thing. But for less then $100 more they could stay at a marina with power, hot showers and bathrooms in the delta. So $150 a month seems excessive for what use to be free. Will the city put in more dinghy docks and maybe provide a water outlet for filling jugs.

Hum for the mannaged anchorage. Does that mean if I want to go over to Richardson bay to anchor for a few days, that I need an inspection to anchor??. Seem excessive. Or will there still be parts of the bay for folks to just drop the hook for a day or three.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

For my friends not a thing. But for less then $100 more they could stay at a marina with power, hot showers and bathrooms in the delta. So $150 a month seems excessive for what use to be free. Will the city put in more dinghy docks and maybe provide a water outlet for filling jugs.

Provided your friends enjoy staying in the delta rather than Sausalito, it sounds like a good deal.

There was a public meeting at the Bay Model about two months ago soliciting ideas from all comers as to what's needed. Showers were at the top of the list. And of course improved access and dingy docks. I can tell you though, that the proliferation of runabouts, jon boats and other over sized excuses for dingies is a growing problem. Many newcomers it seems have been fishermen and garage mechanics in their previous incarnation. Deference, cooperation, respect and sharing of space with others in real dingies is not a priority. While bad attitudes have always been a problem among anchor outs, it appears to be getting worse.

Will there be showers and improved access? We can only press the issues and hope so.

Hum for the mannaged anchorage. Does that mean if I want to go over to Richardson bay to anchor for a few days, that I need an inspection to anchor??. Seem excessive. Or will there still be parts of the bay for folks to just drop the hook for a day or three.

No. Using a mooring or the managed anchorage up to 72 hours requires no permit. However, rules related to ground tackle may be enforced. I doubt it though.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Provided your friends enjoy staying in the delta rather than Sausalito, it sounds like a good deal.

There was a public meeting at the Bay Model about two months ago soliciting ideas from all comers as to what's needed. Showers were at the top of the list. And of course improved access and dingy docks. I can tell you though, that the proliferation of runabouts, jon boats and other over sized excuses for dingies is a growing problem. Many newcomers it seems have been fishermen and garage mechanics in their previous incarnation. Deference, cooperation, respect and sharing of space with others in real dingies is not a priority. While bad attitudes have always been a problem among anchor outs, it appears to be getting worse.

Will there be showers and improved access? We can only press the issues and hope so.

No. Using a mooring or the managed anchorage up to 72 hours requires no permit. However, rules related to ground tackle may be enforced. I doubt it though.

That seems oddly reasonable. The problem with the dinghy docks is there are far more dinghy's then dock. Even without the odd jon boat. Of course there is in theory a 3 day limit on anchoring without a permit already, Has been for years. I've been there 5 or so days once an no one came round. So enforcement is as always part of the issue.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

That seems oddly reasonable. The problem with the dinghy docks is there are far more dinghy's then dock. Even without the odd jon boat. Of course there is in theory a 3 day limit on anchoring without a permit already, Has been for years. I've been there 5 or so days once an no one came round. So enforcement is as always part of the issue.

Rest assured, you can anchor presently in Sausalito for as long as you want. Can you possibly anchor somewhere you'll be told not to anchor? Possibly, but that would probably be coming from Bill Price out and about in his boat.

The three day limit applies to moorings. But then unless they're all full, I don't believe there would be anyone seriously watching. It's when they're full and somebody arrives asking for a mooring that may trip you up.

Time limits on anchoring exist, but have not been enforced. There's nobody watching or who cares enough about it. Absolutely zero enforcement.

Nobody know this early in the process whether or not new dingy access points will be provided. Reason for you to get involved, attend meetings and speak up.

There's water available at the Schumaker marina dingy dock. Don't know about anyplace else. Something else to keep pressing for.

The RBRA has requested a big increase in their budget for enforcement that will accompany the new mooring field and anchorage. Everyone realizes from past experience that without consistent and effective enforcement, anarchy will prevail. They will not allow this to happen again. So, we can believe anybody who refuses to play within the rules will not be using the Bay.

[sailorchic34]

Ah well, I've not picked up a mooring in eight years, and don't really plan too now. So long as there is still free anchoring there, I'll not worry about it. Mind you I'm only there a few a year. Just don't want to see it turned into another San Diego, where anchoring is not allowed at all.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Ah well, I've not picked up a mooring in eight years, and don't really plan too now. So long as there is still free anchoring there, I'll not worry about it. Mind you I'm only there a few a year. Just don't want to see it turned into another San Diego, where anchoring is not allowed at all.

Exactly. And the current process is probably the last chance to avoid that fate for Richardson Bay.

I lived between anchorages in San Diego between 1999-2000. It was a shock to me when I returned to S.D. at the end of my first lengthy voyage in 2005 and discovered the changes. Fortunately I hadn't raised the mast yet. Upped and found a hauler to deliver my boat to Bellingham, Washington.....

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Wrong

...Did you see my recommendation for subsidized moorings?...

Oh boy.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Oh boy.

Oh boy, what?

[Terra Nova]

More handouts.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

More handouts.

1.) Reserve a reasonable number of subsidized moorings for low income individuals and families engaged with a plan or program to help them move into housing if that's their goal. Use agencies, public and or private in the business of helping these folks attain their goals.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Wrong

1.) Reserve a reasonable number of subsidized moorings for low income individuals and families engaged with a plan or program to help them move into housing if that's their goal. Use agencies, public and or private in the business of helping these folks attain their goals.

This is pure BS.