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Old 09-10-2014, 13:28   #211
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Re: Are liveaboards unwanted? disliked? all over everywhere?

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More and more folks living at anchor are considered persona non grata by the land side folks. In the SF bay it is illegal to anchor in one spot long term. Of course there have been folks doing it forever here too.

Water I get at the free pump out locations, when I use the pump out facilities. I use my own hose though. Most fuel docks will give you water when filling up. Many pump outs in SF bay are free. Of course most marines here only charge $30 ish a night or less,some as low as $15 a night. Though the high end marina's in Sausalito and SF charge more. Needless to say, I'll not be staying there any time soon.

So in the SF central bay long term anchor outs, more then 90 days with permit, or 3 days without, is officially illegal. But there are about 100 boats in Richardson bay at any time. Most have been there for years if not decades. By my admittedly lowish standards, most (70% ish) are ship shape. That is fairly clean with sail covers, etc. in sailing condition. Though even those are considered trashy by the land side folks in their 9000+ sf homes on da hill. Which is why anchoring is frowned upon. Gee probably 10 percent of the boats in Richardson bay are owned by single women.

On the other hand marina's love liveaboards. Well OK not all do. But liveaboard fees can just about double slip cost, which is why some marines love it. Of course, I stopped paying liveaboard fees years ago.

With that said, many people live full time on the hook in the California delta. Some for 30 years. Myself I'm a bit too much a gypsy and don't stay in any one location long term. One of these days, I'll need to move on. But I find the California Delta and even the Bay fairly cheap living.

Of course all anchor outs suffer from mental illness. Otherwise, we would be living ashore, working and being productive model citizens, with 2.3 children, two cars, three TV's, watching fox news and with debt up to the wazoo, and hating every minute of it. Been there done that, Thank you but no thank you.
Have to tell you, you have your own folder in my file of liveaboard! You are sooooooooooooo smart. I always take your advice first. I'm 71 and just starting my new life. I've had about 6 of them so far! haha My question is
where is the Cali delta? Is sailing on the Pacific harder than the Atlantic?
Thanks for any and all thoughts.
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Old 09-10-2014, 14:12   #212
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

We moved aboard before the Clean Water Act of 1972 and when there was still plenty of bottom paint containing mercury on the shelves for sale. I'm all for the changes in regulation and I've seen a huge change in compliance. In the early seventies there were hardly any boats built with holding tanks and liveaboards were not quick to comply. There was a long lag time between the enactment of the Clean Water Act and the degree of facilities that allowed compliance. I still know of differences in the degree of compliance among liveaboards, especially those with a different processing of compliance with urine as compared to feces beyond just the use of composting heads.

As for those that disapprove of liveaboards, they don't seem to actually know much about liveaboards and they don't seem to recognize boats that are liveaboard vessels. More often they see a poorly kept vessel with people aboard and call it a liveaboard and then they see a well kept vessel with people aboard and call them cruisers.
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:01   #213
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I read it all. Carefully. I wanted to check the notion of liveaboard.

It now sounds to me like a floating camper, a fixed houseboat .

No more, no less! Nothing against it, in principle, but the idea that a loose, I am right on my own, approach to life, disregarding the others' one, may take hold and even prevail... is grounded.

I will define myself as a sailor on an extended voyage, since now on :-). More attractive to women, more acceptable to the community and the world ashore.

In the Med, we are conscious to enter the waters of someone else, either be it a foreign country, or that family bathing there one h before us, or that fisherman who's coming there since a lifetime!
the world, animals, human beings are territorial. In the past a ship on horizon represented a threat, much more than an opprtunity for trade, knowledge or other. It has been so since ever. Are we sure we live such Modern era?? Because of AIS and 4G radars??? Not that sure, gentlemen!

Thus? The answers are simple
Respect
Naval Etiquette
Be ready to hand out! ...
2 bottles of wine to a fishermen boat for a one-night side mooring in the harbour, offering to buy fish you dont need really, asking of a friend's restaurants, or, like in Dalmatia, handing out 25euro, 30usd for a garbage pick and a mooring ball.

but now more than a kindness, or people flee away.
in Croatia they increased rates counting on crowdy charter boats, a compelling logic in summertime yet a miserable rule for liveaboards or passing sailors. But the crowd set the rules and the economy, alas....

I think that investing in heavier anchoring lines is good to avoid marinas worth 100usd/d or more. Marinas are private, docks are from the munis, and usually refilling at gas stn allows for free water, and a side-mooring till 6am approx.

I agree, regulations are mounting, and paying out is typical of our 'democracies' or better say State moloch. WWeare afloat in the attempt to stay afar from it, so if find it hypocritical to moan how expensive is to moor in say Sausalito, PebbleBeach or, here, Portofino and the likes :-)

i simply move elsewhere, or go to Off-season.

wishing you all wet soles under an airy sun :-)
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:49   #214
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

On the bay area at the estuary, close to alameda, we have few free liveaboard.. they dismantle abandon boats, steal gas or diesel, live for free, sneaking on marinas shower to use it or have sex with hookers, you got the picture..
Past years sheriff clean up (mostly) but time to time we still get some unwanted company.. mostly time a quickly call to sheriff (or coast guard.. after all.. they have they own island very close) end the matter.
I don't know how happy are the folk on Sausalito, having like 100 boats just anchored in front of the marina...
Seems like finally the authority gonna start to clean up richardson bay this year.. alleluia!!
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:56   #215
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Re: Are liveaboards unwanted? disliked? all over everywhere?

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Of course all anchor outs suffer from mental illness. Otherwise, we would be living ashore, working and being productive model citizens, with 2.3 children, two cars, three TV's, watching fox news and with debt up to the wazoo, and hating every minute of it. Been there done that, Thank you but no thank you.
Governments and the people who tell them what to do (and, that's usually not the voters), have to keep citizens strays corralled for the same reason that cowboys have to do it with cattle strays. Namely, they know they are losing money ever time one of them leaves the herd and isn't rounded up and herded back.
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:03   #216
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

lol @ "live for free" being a problem in and of itself.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:52   #217
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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On the bay area at the estuary, close to alameda, we have few free liveaboard.. they dismantle abandon boats, steal gas or diesel, live for free, sneaking on marinas shower to use it or have sex with hookers, you got the picture..
Past years sheriff clean up (mostly) but time to time we still get some unwanted company.. mostly time a quickly call to sheriff (or coast guard.. after all.. they have they own island very close) end the matter.
I don't know how happy are the folk on Sausalito, having like 100 boats just anchored in front of the marina...
Seems like finally the authority gonna start to clean up richardson bay this year.. alleluia!!

We should expand this prejudice to include people who are "campers". I believe there are people who camp out under highway overpasses and use fast food restrooms to bathe and change their clothes. Certainly another group without morals and likely involved in theft and sex crimes. Tent campers are likely less desirable than those that use trailers. What about the hikers too? They seem to be wandering about without the material ownership of more respectable citizens. There should be some authority to round up these people too!
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:15   #218
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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We should expand this prejudice to include people who are "campers". I believe there are people who camp out under highway overpasses and use fast food restrooms to bathe and change their clothes. Certainly another group without morals and likely involved in theft and sex crimes. Tent campers are likely less desirable than those that use trailers. What about the hikers too? They seem to be wandering about without the material ownership of more respectable citizens. There should be some authority to round up these people too!
National parks are full of them.
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:53   #219
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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We should expand this prejudice to include people who are "campers". I believe there are people who camp out under highway overpasses and use fast food restrooms to bathe and change their clothes. Certainly another group without morals and likely involved in theft and sex crimes. Tent campers are likely less desirable than those that use trailers. What about the hikers too? They seem to be wandering about without the material ownership of more respectable citizens. There should be some authority to round up these people too!


Man.. you literally capsize....
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:07   #220
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Man.. you literally capsize....
If "capsize" means to defend many that liveaboard boats and are honorable citizens, then yes.

Members of my family have lived aboard boats for an accumulative 117 years. I would not want them or others maligned by grouping them into a class of vagrants and criminals.
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:19   #221
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Seems like finally the authority gonna start to clean up richardson bay this year.. alleluia!!
My understanding is that the authorities will be requiring proper boat registration for the anchorouts of Richardson bay. About 50% have that and there is a non-profit working with the others to secure the required registration.

I actually know a few of the anchorouts in richardson bay. A few are friends and are good people. Yes there are a few bad apples and some with mental issues.
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:24   #222
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

Winter. Prisons are releasing many people whose felony drug convictions have been reduced to misdemeanors in order to achieve a modicum of 'fairness' at a time many states are legalizing marijuana. And of course to reduce the cost of managing prisons and the court system. Unfortunately, some of these people will engage in drug activities beyond the sale and use of marijuana. How many of them will end up on a boat in Richardson Bay?

San Quintin is a hop skip and jump from Sausalito's infamous anchorage on the east side of the main channel. Last year there were 90+- boats. This year, 112+-. Personally, I'd like to know who's on the occupied boats, and to see the unnoccupied boats removed. In some cases people own multiple numbers of boats they bought for $1 and are selling on speculation. Yep, Richardson Bay is being used as their sales lot. You can usually spot them by looking for the lit'l boats refurbished by the addition of new sail covers.... They look oh so much better!

Two Coast Guard cutters and a r.i.b, Daves Diving and at one point a fire boat were engaged at no small expense rounding up at last count 6 boats that dragged anchor in a strong norther Tuesday thru Wednesday afternoon. I couldn't help to wonder if in the dark, the coasties may be able to haul out a bushel or two of the boats on the assumption they were dragging... I'm mean, who can really see?

In spite of all of this the thing that annoys me the most is some dude or dudess comes along, drops a rock on the bottom of a public waterway and never leaves. The rest of us comprising the general public are henceforth prevented from using the space; and all space a reasonable distance away necessary to afford swinging room if anchoring. That's not all. This dude or dudess will inevitable add two more rocks to create a mooring (with or without a ball), further complicating calculations of how far away one should drop the hook.

Jurisdiction over Richardson Bay is a muddled affair with the Richardson Bay Regional Authority struggling for control over what is federal territory. I'm not holding my breath expecting a clean out anytime soon.

My position as a sailor living aboard at anchor for most of the last 24 years, and aptly called a cruiser after completing the better part of two, 4.5 year global circumstances is obviously pro-liveaboard. But, my idea of living aboard includes changing my boats location every week or so. Sharing the space so to speak. But, due to relatively recent restrictions on anchoring in Clipper Cove and a four hour limit at the Jack London public dock, my ability to move around is seriously hampered. There's only one 'anchor out' in the Richardson Bay federal anchorage I know of who actually sails his boat - without an engine. The only time the rest leave their spot is when a strong norther or souther comes through...
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:25   #223
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

To zengirl, Sorry for the late response, The California Delta is an inland delta that starts about 40 miles inland from San Francisco. It has roughly a 1000 miles of fresh water rivers and sloughs. Summer time temperatures are in the 90's and can get to 100 degrees. But it has low humidity and I find it quite a pleasant place in the spring to late fall. Fishing, swimming (in summer) and lots of nature.
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:50   #224
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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To zengirl, Sorry for the late response, The California Delta is an inland delta that starts about 40 miles inland from San Francisco. It has roughly a 1000 miles of fresh water rivers and sloughs. Summer time temperatures are in the 90's and can get to 100 degrees. But it has low humidity and I find it quite a pleasant place in the spring to late fall. Fishing, swimming (in summer) and lots of nature.
There are many who consider it to be Paradise. We did visit it and found it quite nice.

And as to Richardson Bay. When we were in Sausalito, we had no problems with the anchored boats. Did have to come in carefully, but that's normal approaching a marina. We liked them in our view for the most part. The only time we observed a problem was between anchored boats. One boat was a nuisance with a boom box blasting and the nearest boat very kindly asked they turn it down, so they turned it up. Now turns out this was also the boat that broke loose that night and blew into another boat (fortunately no damage). Even after the light collision as the other boat owner prevented damage, the two people on the loose boat remained asleep below deck. Turns out very drunk.
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Old 01-01-2015, 12:59   #225
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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To zengirl, Sorry for the late response, The California Delta is an inland delta that starts about 40 miles inland from San Francisco. It has roughly a 1000 miles of fresh water rivers and sloughs. Summer time temperatures are in the 90's and can get to 100 degrees. But it has low humidity and I find it quite a pleasant place in the spring to late fall. Fishing, swimming (in summer) and lots of nature.
Any idea what effect the plan to tunnel water from the delta into the SFBay area will have on boaters accustomed to using the delta for fishing and living aboard? I heard the authorities emptied the delta of liveaboards. Do you credit your continued presence there to moving around?
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