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Old 01-05-2014, 18:19   #151
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

You can live aboard in the North Channel of Lake Huron (Canada) all summer. There are few marinas and anchoring out is the norm. The town of Little Current offers the city docks free till 9:00 PM for transients and that includes electric hook-up, water, internet, toilets, showers. They expect you are there to do laundry, enjoy a restaurant, buy provisions. When you aren't raped by the marina, you do stop and you do spend. Many other places throughout the area permit day docking for free while you shop & eat. Really nice place. Many retirees live aboard and cruise the archipelago all summer. I suppose the difference is that everyone must sail in and you must be gone before ice-in. No derelicts then.
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Old 01-05-2014, 19:07   #152
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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You can live aboard in the North Channel of Lake Huron (Canada) all summer. There are few marinas and anchoring out is the norm. The town of Little Current offers the city docks free till 9:00 PM for transients and that includes electric hook-up, water, internet, toilets, showers. They expect you are there to do laundry, enjoy a restaurant, buy provisions. When you aren't raped by the marina, you do stop and you do spend. Many other places throughout the area permit day docking for free while you shop & eat. Really nice place. Many retirees live aboard and cruise the archipelago all summer. I suppose the difference is that everyone must sail in and you must be gone before ice-in. No derelicts then.
How enlightened! Gee...a city that recognizes that tourism (by boat) can be GOOD for the community.

If it snowed in the winter in SF or Portland or Seattle or Vancouver, BC, would that get rid of the homeless?

I like the Utah idea. How humane.
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Old 01-05-2014, 19:45   #153
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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I may have time on my hands but I have just spent a bloody big amount of it on reading this thread. Certain posts have been removed and several others have had to be removed because they responded to it.

If you lost yours in the clean up then sorry. Be aware that political and religious rants are not permitted on this forum. Discuss the issue, which is an important one, by all means, but leave the snarkiness and oh so clever jibes in the box, or henhouse.

Coops.
So Coop?
How much "recreational complaining" goes on in your chicken coop?
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Old 01-05-2014, 20:00   #154
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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So Coop?
How much "recreational complaining" goes on in your chicken coop?
Quite a lot really. Plus, eggs get layed, feathers get ruffled and as always, somebody has to rule the roost.

Coops.
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Old 01-05-2014, 21:27   #155
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Quite a lot really. Plus, eggs get layed, feathers get ruffled and as always, somebody has to rule the roost.

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Wifey B: Didn't you all hear Coops go "Cock a Doodle Doo".
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:36   #156
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I doubt it's any particular enlightenment. Liveaboards on the Great Lakes are simply self limiting due to cold winters and the costs that come with it.

I'm sure there are exceptions but in Michigan, marina operaters just look at you funny when you ask about liveaboard. As long as you aren't causing problems, they generally don't care.

At a bare minimum the boat has to be operational enough to get to a haul out and then pay for haul out and winter storage then get back to thier anchorage in the spring. On top of that you have to find someplace to live for the winter. I'm sure the guys who buy a derelick $500 boat and just leave it permanently anchored usually give up by mid December.

We have come across the very rare boat that does stay in the water and people live on it but it's always been at a slip ($), they run bubblers ($) and have to heat the boat ($$$$) all while living an uncomfortable lifestyle because the marinas typically shut off water and close the facilities.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:29   #157
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

The same holds true here in the Chesapeake, Valhalla. At least here in the northern Chesapeake where we are. As a result most of the liveaboards we see here head south down the ICW and live somewhere else in the winter. There are a very few in marinas that we have met. We have some at our old yacht club that were "snowbirds." They leave their boat here, come up here to live on it in the summer, and live in Florida in the winter. Finding a marina to live aboard in this area doesn't seem to be an impossible task. It's just not very desirable for year round living. We lived aboard in the Baltimore harbor when we first moved here in 2003 but had moved into a house by the time winter arrived, thank God. I for one would not want to be aboard a boat here in the winter.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:52   #158
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

And then there are the "What marina can I liveaboard in Boston Harbor?" threads, too.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:31   #159
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Well Stu... now that you mention it.... I've considered a 3 month assignment in the summer in Boston. What is the chance of getting a slip for 3 months?
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:43   #160
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Well Stu... now that you mention it.... I've considered a 3 month assignment in the summer in Boston. What is the chance of getting a slip for 3 months?
I can't speak to Boston, but I have found it to be interesting at least in southern California that if you are renting a slip short term you are considered "transient" and the restrictions are a lot looser, although usually you pay more per foot. We were in a marina in San Diego that did not allow liveaboards and had a lot of requirements re: insurance and such for the normal residents. However cruisers that were "in transit" did not have to have the same insurance and could liveaboard because they were in transit. We met cruisers who were "in transit" at the marina for many many months, years even. Just depends on what you're willing to pay.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:49   #161
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

No different than a condo.I have lived in a couple where I wanted to hang my Mexican blanket out over the balcony to dry. That is not allowed. You must put bit in the dryer to shrink it. It is not like its underwear, it is a blanket and quite attractive I might add.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:25   #162
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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No different than a condo.I have lived in a couple where I wanted to hang my Mexican blanket out over the balcony to dry. That is not allowed. You must put bit in the dryer to shrink it. It is not like its underwear, it is a blanket and quite attractive I might add.
And making the rules is just as complicated. Condo can't make a rule that says, "No hanging of laundry on balcony unless it's an attractive Mexican blanket" and even if they did make that, then there would be a huge debate over what was attractive.

It's a lot more difficult than often realized to make rules that protect the majority without unduly limiting people. But, people have also shown clearly that if you have zero rules, some people will cause a lot of problems.

The solutions are not easy to figure out. Much of it is trial and error. And various communities will err one way or the other before coming back to a reasonable compromise. Our house is in a community with many restrictions and then on top of that there are water restrictions limiting our dock. There are a couple of things I'd like to do but wouldn't be allowed to. On the other hand, I'm glad my neighbors can't just do whatever they want. So I accept it. If I lived on acres way out in the country I wouldn't care what neighbors did. But I live where homes are wall to wall almost. Docks are also.
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Old 03-05-2014, 15:25   #163
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

This is my experience to date. I am in a marina and live aboard. In my case I clearly define myself as a live aboard and I am paying the fees. The marina I am in has a stable consistent community of live aboard boats.

About a year ago the management evicted 2 tenants living aboard. One because of his aggressive and threatening attitude to others and the other because of the condition that his boat was kept in, lots of accumulated junk combined with and a unwillingness to remove it after many warnings.

Some of the community have been here over 15 years and some of the boats really would not pass muster as to sea worthiness which is in the marinas tenancy rules. The dockmaster is pretty easy going and seems to look the other way as long as the tenants (live aboard and the rest) do not do extreme things repeatedly.

The thing is the two evicted boaters have moved onto other marinas or moorings (no full time anchorage in SD) and I know that they were given many chances to change there behavior and did not. So these people may be looked at as what a live aboard is. As others here have suggested a few may be seen to represent the many.

I think (my opinion) that smart management recognize the advantage of a quality live aboard community. The good vibe in the marinas that have them is noticeable it helps with the security and safety that is absent without us.

My experience is limited and I am hoping that when we head out cruising next year that we will not have negative labels prohibit us from discovering the reason for changing to a water based lifestyle. For me the whole point was to cruise, not live aboard and live aboard has become a means to do that. I see us doing both as we move around the world. Being a live aboard has been a transition to the dreams and plans we have.

When I look around San Diego most of the boats fitting the description of derelict by and large are on moorings, that's about the cost of keeping the boat. I would guess there is a very small percentage of live aboard on moorings that do not keep there boats up. San Diego marinas are expensive. In the mid 2000's slips where scarce now not so much. Marinas are competing for the same tenants as boat ownership is stagnant. The Port of San Diego will not allow marinas to reduce the rent so some marinas have become more flexible with live aboard even though they will not publish this, trying to increase there long term tenancies.

The Port of San Diego closed the open anchorage about 5 years ago, there is a short term open anchorage for transients (cruisers). All in all SD is not very cruiser friendly unless one wants to pony up and pay at the marina office.
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Old 03-05-2014, 19:33   #164
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

I have lived on boats for 25 years now, spent 4 managing a small harbor and 5 working in a boatyard. So I have seen a bit as well.

It seems that the most troublesome liveaboards never have any power. Or some unrealistic application of power such as a 9.9 powering a 30+ foot boat. Sure it'll move, but not if the wind is blowing. The harbor here tried to make a rule stating that boats could only be in the harbor with 'original power' as a way to deny space to all the 26 foot powerboats powered by kicker motors, without directly attacking the liveaboard scene.

Personally I think 'reasonable power' is a better standard to judge by. A 9.9 is enough to move around a little powerboat, but with steering and controls remote located. Having someone crouching on the swim step while someone shouts instructions to them is not a reasonable way of powering a boat.

If a person puts the effort into making their boat a working item, and not just a crash pad, then it seems they probably care enough to be good harbor tenants.

Now we have a guy here at the harbor. 34' fiberglass powerboat. 8hp outboard attached to the transom. Back of the boat completely covered in corrugated siding. Chicken coops on top of all this. Nothing wrong with the owner though. Guy loves his little floating house with his chickens and etc.

But he will leave eventually and try to sell the boat, but who wants such a thing ? It's the next owners who will be problematic.
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Old 03-05-2014, 19:41   #165
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Re: Are Liveaboards Unwanted? Disliked? All over Everywhere?

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Well Stu... now that you mention it.... I've considered a 3 month assignment in the summer in Boston. What is the chance of getting a slip for 3 months?
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And then there are the "What marina can I liveaboard in Boston Harbor?" threads, too.
I BLEW it. Shoulda said: "...liveaboard in the WINTER in Boston...
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