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Old 07-11-2013, 17:15   #361
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I could be mistaken, but isn't it true that the US health care system pays for all development of new medicines, most R&D for new medical devices, as well as most pioneering medical techniques? In that sense, the US system subsidizes the entire globe.
No. Your forgetting about places like Canada, Switzerland, France, Britain, South Africa, Germany, & a whole ton of other countries that have excellent pharmaceutical and medical research facilities as well as production facilities.
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Old 07-11-2013, 17:19   #362
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by Eumelia View Post
I could be mistaken, but isn't it true that the US health care system pays for all development of new medicines, most R&D for new medical devices, as well as most pioneering medical techniques? In that sense, the US system subsidizes the entire globe.
No, those things are paid for by profits. Profits are paid for by people buying things. The "system" isn't paying for them - the people needing healthcare are.

BTW, pharmaceutical companies exist in many other countries - Germany and Switzerland are giants there. France is a large player in pioneering medical techniques. In fact, most of the amazing headlines in recent years have been about French advances. South Africa pioneered heart transplantation, for another example.

In the US political discourse and belief system, what you ask is true. In the real world, it is not.

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Old 07-11-2013, 17:31   #363
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
No. Your forgetting about places like Canada, Switzerland, France, Britain, South Africa, Germany, & a whole ton of other countries that have excellent pharmaceutical and medical research facilities as well as production facilities.
Sadly, you can cross Britain off the list of pharmaceutical company greatness. Once a pillar of pharmaceutical R&D, it is no more. Their terroristic animal rights activists (NOT associated with the government - this isn't a political statement) and antagonistic business policies (that is government-related) have caused almost all of them to pull out of the country. Pfizer left several years ago and Novartis just announced they couldn't take it anymore. The few remaining have shuttered down to only performing local clinical studies necessary for country approval and not R&D.

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Old 07-11-2013, 17:42   #364
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

Well, I always figured that since we pay these outlandishly high rates for medicine and services here in the US that it was going toward R&D. Of course, we do have these outrageous legal costs folded into the medical fees. I have heard that medical doctors have to pay upwards of 250000 USD per year for malpractice premiums. Too bad B. O. Care hasn't done anything about that issue!
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Old 07-11-2013, 17:45   #365
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
If it is so good……… why did Congress and the Exec E-X-E-M-P-T themselves!

My coverage (Male mid 50’s, perfect health, Non-smoker) goes from $262/mo with $5K deductible to $795/month with $6K

My Wife (pre-existing condition) from $350/mo, same $5K deductible…. to $1895???? WTF?

So much for retirement; I need to go back to work:bang head:

The Gov’t can kiss my butt! I’m going naked…. saving the premium to pay for out of pocket, and “the system” can go to Hell!
I am very sorry to hear this is hitting you so hard.

And that, ladies and gentlemen is how this is all cruising related.
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Old 07-11-2013, 20:48   #366
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I am very sorry to hear this is hitting you so hard.

And that, ladies and gentlemen is how this is all cruising related.
I just checked prices on Highmark, a Large provider here in PA and the highest price plan for 50 yr old nonsmoker was a about $520 without any subsidies.
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Old 07-11-2013, 21:08   #367
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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
If it is so good……… why did Congress and the Exec E-X-E-M-P-T themselves!

My coverage (Male mid 50’s, perfect health, Non-smoker) goes from $262/mo with $5K deductible to $795/month with $6K

My Wife (pre-existing condition) from $350/mo, same $5K deductible…. to $1895???? WTF?

So much for retirement; I need to go back to work:bang head:

The Gov’t can kiss my butt! I’m going naked…. saving the premium to pay for out of pocket, and “the system” can go to Hell!
That sucks. Hope you can work something else out. Sail across the gulf for routine medical and dental work. Some docs may work out a cash rate, and if you're healthy and not buying several hundred bucks a month in scrips etc., you can really squirrel away some money. What does a catastrophic plan with higher deductible cost?
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Old 07-11-2013, 22:59   #368
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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If it is so good……… why did Congress and the Exec E-X-E-M-P-T themselves!
Well.....because they didn't...

Congress, the Affordable Care Act, and the Myth of the 'Exemption' | Brookings Institution

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Under a provision of ACA, Congressmen and their staffs are required to purchase health care from Exchanges.
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The irony: Congress is treated as a unique entity, not because it is exempted from the Affordable Care Act, but because it is the only large employer forced onto its Exchanges.
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Old 08-11-2013, 00:48   #369
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Originally Posted by Eumelia View Post
I could be mistaken, but isn't it true that the US health care system pays for all development of new medicines, most R&D for new medical devices, as well as most pioneering medical techniques? In that sense, the US system subsidizes the entire globe.
Hogwash actually

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:52   #370
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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No, those things are paid for by profits. Profits are paid for by people buying things. The "system" isn't paying for them - the people needing healthcare are.

BTW, pharmaceutical companies exist in many other countries - Germany and Switzerland are giants there. France is a large player in pioneering medical techniques. In fact, most of the amazing headlines in recent years have been about French advances. South Africa pioneered heart transplantation, for another example.

In the US political discourse and belief system, what you ask is true. In the real world, it is not.

Mark
So, for those of us who love useless data... based on List of pharmaceutical companies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the top six countries for pharmaceutical research are as follows:
USA 29.8 billion USD
Switzerland 18.3 billion USD
UK 6.6 billion USD
France 6.1 billion USD
Germany 2.4 billion USD
Sweden 4.4 billion USD
All of this money ultimately comes out of the pockets of consumers and taxpayers, of course. Anyone here getting your money's worth?
I do know from speaking with colleagues from India, that in the USA we pay 10x for the same drugs as they do. How does it compare to European countries?
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:17   #371
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
No, those things are paid for by profits. Profits are paid for by people buying things. The "system" isn't paying for them - the people needing healthcare are.

In the US political discourse and belief system, what you ask is true. In the real world, it is not.

Mark

Oh, and where do profits in the pharmaceutical industry come from? The U.S., which comprises more than half of the world pharmaceutical market. Given the market size, does the U.S. pay less for pharmaceuticals? Nope.

So yes, the U.S. is subsidizing the world's pharmaceutical development.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:18   #372
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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I do know from speaking with colleagues from India, that in the USA we pay 10x for the same drugs as they do. How does it compare to European countries?
Bingo.

Why do bandits rob banks?

Because that's where the money is.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:19   #373
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It is not about R&D spend - it is about results.

Where was penicillin invented? Not the USA. Long time ago.

Where was the latest produced in burn recovery? Not the USA. Quite recently.

You should just contain your egos and copy any system. Don't reinvent the wheel!
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:21   #374
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Hogwash actually

Dave
Nice response. Now, go back and research the issue. Google is your friend, and the information is readily available.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:26   #375
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumelia View Post
So, for those of us who love useless data... based on List of pharmaceutical companies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the top six countries for pharmaceutical research are as follows:
USA 29.8 billion USD
Switzerland 18.3 billion USD
UK 6.6 billion USD
France 6.1 billion USD
Germany 2.4 billion USD
Sweden 4.4 billion USD
All of this money ultimately comes out of the pockets of consumers and taxpayers, of course. Anyone here getting your money's worth?
I do know from speaking with colleagues from India, that in the USA we pay 10x for the same drugs as they do. How does it compare to European countries?
Those data are from 2009. Since that time, Pfizer and Novartis have pulled out of the UK and GlaxoSmithKline has scaled back their operations significantly. I'm afraid the next round of data collection will not have the UK in the top research spending.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who think they have received their money's worth with pharmaceuticals. Drugs have done a lot of good, and many have replaced much more costly and invasive older treatments. Some are keeping people alive where no other treatment would or could.

As for cost, why shouldn't free market forces be in effect here? Why shouldn't pharmaceutical companies price their product to what the market will pay? Currently, the US market is willing to pay higher prices. No one forces anyone to buy drugs. Markets in other countries do not support those prices so the costs are lower.

The opposite is true for electronics, clothing, etc in the US vs. the UK.

It is certainly an interesting exercise to figure out and understand why this is.

But one cannot be a free-market, no regulation, no social programs, everyone for themselves libertarian capitalist and complain about drug pricing. (I'm not saying you are - I'm talking in the general sense).

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