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Old 04-11-2013, 16:58   #151
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

someone PM me please if this thread ever gets back on track instead of rants etc., by on track I mean info on hw the ACA affects cruisers getting insurance
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Old 04-11-2013, 17:21   #152
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
someone PM me please if this thread ever gets back on track instead of rants etc., by on track I mean info on hw the ACA affects cruisers getting insurance
I will be sure to do that once I can get past the "create account" portion of the website…

Mark
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Old 04-11-2013, 17:36   #153
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Rich, I'm curious how you feel about farmers, milk producers, cattle grazers, sugar companies, the aerospace/military companies, energy companies, etc.

All of them get much larger "welfare checks" each than the entire output for the ACA.

I understand you don't like the concept of the ACA, and support your right there, but referring to the tax situation around it as "welfare checks" is technically incorrect, exceeded by the above, and offensive.

Maybe bring your debate points to the table stripped of the more emotionally-constructed terms?

Mark
I'm not sure it's wise or warranted to bring in all of the other government welfare schemes into a ACA discussion on a cruiser chat thread, remembering that we are trying at least to keep this discussion related to cruising/live aboards. I intentionally used the term Welfare because it is what it is Mark, no offense intended. Any time we take tax dollars from one person and give them to another or group that has not in some way earned them (like a pension, retirement, etc) I view that as a simple welfare program.

The home intrest tax deduction...welfare.
The R&D tax credit given to companies...welfare.
Tax breaks given to Big Oil, Pharma, Ag, etc..all welfare

I try to stay intellectually consistent. Some welfare programs are good and needed and I fully support others...well not so much. A subsidy make is sound better and check easier to take.

Unfortunately, none of our opinions of the ACA really matter in the end because there is simply NO Money left to pay for it...I hate to be the bearer of bad news folks, but Uncle Sam is dead broke and you can increase taxes to 75% of the evil 1% 5% or 50% and you still don't have enough money to meet the 70 Trillion in unfunded liabilities the US Govent has promised out. THIS is what I view as of KEY importance to us...cruisers...people that can think outside the box. How do you prepare and protect yourself and your family from what it coming. Arguing about this deductible or that subsidy or this program detail misses the point that the emperor has no clothes and his undies have holes.

My suggestion for those looking into the Health Care issue from the cruiser live aboard perspective and the motivation behind my posts here, is to think outside of the box…the cruisers motto. Have your emergency plan for health care in place, do you know what countries have good affordable insurance or will you try and figure that out in a panic when you need care? What I find amazing is that such independent people living outside of the “norm” get sucked right back into the “norm” and “system” when it comes to health care? Honestly for me, I could care less what hurdles and obstructions the idiots in DC or elsewhere throw in my way because I will just go around them. NOT because I am better or worse than anyone else (Sheesh I’m a complete Bozo) but because I don’t accept the false choices the system tries to force on me and my family.
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Old 04-11-2013, 17:38   #154
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
... Once again a one size fits all Govent approach has taken away people's freedom and liberty for the chains of healthcare security.
Forgive me for butting in now. By way of justification, I held my tongue when you slagged Canadian healthcare, so I've given myself permission to comment on something less inflammatory.

The "liberty" that is being taken away is the freedom to live in a country with an incomplete and seriously flawed healthcare system. I'm sorry that some are finding it painful, but in the long-term the ACA will be seen as an important step, and your grandkids will thank you.

If government debt is truly your concern, there are a few other things that should be whittled down before healthcare. Military spending, big industry subsidies...

(ok I'll be quiet now)
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Old 04-11-2013, 17:42   #155
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Anyway catastrophic Heath cover is a bit ridiculous
Thousands...actually Millions of Americans didn't agree and we are all quite happy with our catastrophic plans. Why can't I pay out of pocket until I hit $10K...wasn't that my choice? I thought the Govent these days was pro-choice when it came to health care? Unfortuantely, now through the force of Govent that choice has been taken away form them. I sure hope they didn't believe the Lie "if you like your health plan, you can keep it" I saw that one coming a mile away.
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Old 04-11-2013, 17:47   #156
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
The "liberty" that is being taken away is the freedom to live in a country with an incomplete and seriously flawed healthcare system.
I've never understood how a system that had 80% of the population with health insurance be "incomplete and seriously flawed" when the new system will still leave millions without insurance and add TRILlions in debt. Who is going to pay for that?
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Old 04-11-2013, 18:08   #157
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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I intentionally used the term Welfare because it is what it is Mark, no offense intended. Any time we take tax dollars from one person and give them to another or group that has not in some way earned them (like a pension, retirement, etc) I view that as a simple welfare program.

*****The home intrest tax deduction...welfare******
The R&D tax credit given to companies...welfare.
Tax breaks given to Big Oil, Pharma, Ag, etc..all welfare
.
Not to nit pick but I have to disagree with the tax deductions being a form of welfare (emphasis ** above mine)...

When the government allows you to keep some of your own money rather than paying it to them in tax, this isn't welfare. Its closer to how things should work.
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Old 04-11-2013, 18:09   #158
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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I will be sure to do that once I can get past the "create account" portion of the website…

Mark
That was both funny and clever
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Old 04-11-2013, 18:16   #159
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post

The home intrest tax deduction...welfare.
The R&D tax credit given to companies...welfare.
Tax breaks given to Big Oil, Pharma, Ag, etc..all welfare
Tax deduction for kids....welfare
Tax breaks for education....welfare
Fed tax breaks for those that pay state tax...welfare
Lower tax brackets for those that make >500,000 a year.....welfare

Did I get this right? According to your definition, everything that isn't paid in full by an individual is welfare?

I don't buy it. I think you're feeling your self-defined superiority threatened by the unwashed masses.
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Old 04-11-2013, 18:44   #160
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Tax deduction for kids....welfare
Tax breaks for education....welfare
Fed tax breaks for those that pay state tax...welfare
Lower tax brackets for those that make >500,000 a year.....welfare

Did I get this right? According to your definition, everything that isn't paid in full by an individual is welfare?

I don't buy it. I think you're feeling your self-defined superiority threatened by the unwashed masses.
I didn't think it was that confuzing really, but I'll state my view on govnt hand outs and welfare again, just for clarity. Anytime the Government is giving money to people/organizations/groups, etc that they have not earned (like a pension, retirement, health care as part of a job) that is by definition a government hand-out or welfare. This money can be in the form of a check, like food stamps, or a "subsidy" like the ACA, or it can be in the form of tax breaks or credits put in place by the monied and powered interests to suck off the public tit. When Govent picks "winners and losers" (see where we keep coming back to this concept) it will always be a corrupt process with special favors and kick-backs to the connected. Just ask the Big Business that got an ACA exemption...in exchange for campaing controbutions.

Well as for the unwashed masses commet, I tend to ignore personal digs on internet chat rooms just like I tell my kids to do. And by ignoring them and not answering back in kind, it usually drives the poster even more crazy...if that is a superior state of mind, well a guys gotta have a little internet fun don't he...guilty as charged...ha ha ha.

It is also a flaw of mine that I enjoy a good discusstion and have the ability to not take things personally when someone thinks I'm an idiot/jackass/bozo/etc. I don't try to be honestly, but these days any time someone dare read something that they don't agree with and SHA-ZAM it's like the poster is some evil-do-er that needs to be attacked and their opinion crushed, ridiculed and belittled. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would rather hang out for cocktails with people that have complete oposite views than I do compared to fellow Tea Party Terrorists.

We gott bring this barge around back to Health Care for Cruisers....
Does anyone have any good exmples of quality care in Countries visited by Cruisers they care to share? I so liked the GI Doc I have in Mazatlan, MX that I will be flying down for my yearly Colonoscopy rolled into a little Vacation...heck now that I think about it, if I work it right I can stuff myself with Tacos and not have to ingest the calories from them...ha h ha ...A WIN!
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Old 04-11-2013, 18:58   #161
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Old 04-11-2013, 19:01   #162
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

Look, my only goal here is to prevent misinformation. I'll ignore your rant for the sake of civility. You originally said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
But all you have to do it use emergency care until the open enrollment and BINGO...you are in Baby.
My point is that while somebody could do that, there would be no practical reason to. If someone uses emergency care until open enrollment they are certainly not "in baby." It would not be a prudent course of action to take because the person would be subject to emergency room bills likely much higher than an entire year of premiums, not to mention that they would have to wait up to a year for treatment of any more serious issue.

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Who said it WAS MY PLAN?
This is where people get so emotional to seeing oposing views that they take it personal and slip into a Fog of attack the messanger mode, unfortunate, but not surprising in the days where attack trumps discussion of ideas.

As was posted by another cruiser, Mark I believe, HIS plan was laid out and there are thousands of people planning to pay the fine just like Mark and then buy insurance after their "car gets hit".
Ignoring the fact that you said someone following that course of action would be "in baby", I guess I could concede that you didn't explicitly state it was "your plan". I think you were missing the broader point though.

To summarize the 2 points I've been trying to make repeatedly on this thread:
  1. Paying the fine and relying on emergency care could be financial suicide. Due to open enrollment restrictions people will not people able to enroll in insurance right when something goes wrong. If you prefer to get treatment in a different country then I would say that is a potentially valid route, but also aside from the point I was making.
  2. I would encourage everyone to do some comparison shopping. The $1,200 per month quoted by the OP sounds impossibly high. I personally have checked rates on the exchanges and found even gold level plans for under $500 per month. Just some friendly advice that there are cheap plans and substantial subsidies out there.

And that's all. Take it for what it's worth. Those are objective observations and have nothing to do with the merits of Obamacare/ACA.
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Old 04-11-2013, 19:03   #163
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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I've never understood how a system that had 80% of the population with health insurance be "incomplete and seriously flawed" when the new system will still leave millions without insurance and add TRILlions in debt. Who is going to pay for that?
Just a quick fact check...

Us population
2012 = 314 million
80% = 251,200,000
20 % = 62,800,000

So using figures from the above quote, there were still "millions without insurance" under the old system in 2012. Some of those millions are the intended targets of ACA, and the intended result is fewer uninsured.

Who is going to pay? Me. Maybe some of you who are reading this, too. Or at least for a bit of it, one way or another.

Maybe our Reps in DC might consider, well, reallocating resources to come up with the "trillions" needed (or whatever the actual costs may be)? Anyone else vote for, oh, I don't know, maybe staying out of a war or two for awhile?

MY taxes help pay for police, firefighters, roads (and and and) that I don't use because I left the USA years ago. But that's how we share the costs of being a civilized nation, and IMHO healthcare is part of the rubric. {And you Brits can just stop snickering about my referring to us as "civilized". }

So I'll protect myself and wife best I can, but with coverage applicable to living outside the USA. And I'll keep trying to get the facts about coverage in Wash state - just in case I need/want to "go home". Meanwhile, it's okay with me if a few of my tax dollars help to cover John and Jane Doe who were made redundant at the job.

James

P.S. - STILL cannot access/enter the Federal ACA website from here in American Samoa. (sigh)
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Old 04-11-2013, 19:07   #164
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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Look, my only goal here is to prevent misinformation.
[*]I would encourage everyone to do some comparison shopping. The $1,200 per month quoted by the OP sounds impossibly high. I personally have checked rates on the exchanges and found even gold level plans for under $500 per month. Just some friendly advice that there are cheap plans and substantial subsidies out there.[/LIST]
Great advice. The politics of this have overwhelmed reality. The easiest thing to do is to go to one of the private insurance markets on line such as ehealthinsurance.com and see what your rates would be. All of the plans they are offering there now will survive the ACA rollout. As a result, you ought to get a good idea of worst case scenario costs under the ACA (before any subsidy). I think most people will be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 04-11-2013, 19:08   #165
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Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled

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The home intrest tax deduction...welfare.
The R&D tax credit given to companies...welfare.
Tax breaks given to Big Oil, Pharma, Ag, etc..all welfare
OK, fair enough. I now consider your points as being argued from a principled and non-relative position.

However, you are going to have to turn in your right-wing nut-job union card now!

(to the Mods - Rich and I know each other - I am positive he takes that comment as the joke I meant it to be!!!!!!)

Mark
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