Advice wanted on 38-41 liveaboard cruisers

I guess I am just cheap. I have never been one to vote with my dollars. I have pulled my business from vendors who provide poor service regardless of the quality of the product. But, I was asking as a matter of curiosity, not ot change the direction of the threa, so I will consider the question answered. I agree, they are not the only game in town, and with a little research, I am sure an insurer can be found for an older boat. As long as it's not wood

[Sunspot Baby]

Heck, there is a point at which it makes sense to be self insured. I am not there right now, but I may not be far away.

Cruisers are by nature (imho) risk takers. When it is going to take only 5 years of premiums to hit market value, I might go without the security blanket.

I don't know what your are looking at, but think about working without a net. Many do.

George

[Skylark]

We sailed with a friend today on a 1985 Sabre 38, which would be a great liveaboard/cruiser. The condition was excellent, it was hard to believe it was from the 80's. Find a boat with a previous owner who cared for the boat well.

The Great Lakes have some clean, well preserved cruising boats, and are beautiful cruising grounds as long as you escape down the Hudson River before Labor Day.

Shipping a boat by truck is expensive, but not as expensive as sailing it from the east coast to the west coast. How much is your time worth?

[AnchorageGuy]

D&C, If your considerations are Valdez to Peru and your boat considerations are Hunter and Beneteau than you need to do a serious reevaluation of your life. Mostly because cruising in these areas in those boats may be a life changing experience. First you need to make decisions on your boat based on construction, seaworthiness, comfort and handling characteristics for a small crew. Anything else and your cruising may be very short lived. When it comes to insurance these days you take what you can get regardless of their philosophies if you are considering boating insurance and most US companies will not insure you once you leave US waters. Next year and the next this situation will probably get worse. If you base your boat decision on who will insure it, stick to bay sailing in protected water in good weather. I think you need to go back to square one with you plans and research, research. This is serious business out here and it can be wonderful most of the time and life threatening at others. Do you really want to trust your life in a full gale with mountainous seas offshore to a Hunter. I sure wouldn't. That is not to say the Hunter does not have its place and has not crossed oceans. People have done it in row boats but that doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do. I speak from over 40 years on the water and the last 20 years living aboard and cruising further than the local weekend anchorages. You have taken a good step posting here and soaking in some of the responses. A Morgan OI is not a good offshore boat as your reply suggests. People do take them offshore. we have seen all manner of vessels in some exotic locals. They must have a very fatigued guardian angel. many insurance companies insure older boats based on a current survey and not age. Our Sea Trek is 26 years old and has always been well insured whether we are in the US or the Caribbean. She has carried us safely through 14 named storms without a scratch over the past 15 years and is as strong and safe a vessel as you will find today. I would not have wanted to be in most of these same conditions with a Beneteau. I have been a Yacht Broker for many years and am a marine tech by trade. So there are not many boats I have not seen or repaired. Keep asking questions and doing your research. Wait for the Ah Hah factor to kick in and it will all make sense but don't jump in until your comfort level and knowledge base says its time. Good Luck. BTW Sea Trek is available for sale if an "older" boat ever begins to appeal to you.

[D&CMartin]

Could it be some here are advocates for the sale of their boats vs honest advice? I would hope not. Anyhow, all input is very appreciated, valid or otherwise.

[D&CMartin]

Can someone please explain to me how a day coastal sale in say, Panama, varies from a day sale in Ensenda or San Diego. Or why it is difficult to understand why an insurance company would require a boat that they insure in foreign waters would want that boat to be newer. Another thing is who cares how long it takes to get to waypoint b or c or d? Time is what I and mine have plenty of.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Again D&C,
You are getting the advice you asked for and with sailors there is an opinion for every boat from every sailor. I guess that's why there are so many styles and purposes in the boat world. Just have to sort through the advice and do lots of research. I don't have any boats for sale otherwise I might offer you one. (G) Kind Regards, --JohnL--

[Charlie]

A day sail in San Diego veruses a day sail in Panama. Right off the bat I can think of one major difference -- the US Coastguard. Number two is the location of the closest Marine Tech. You get much past Ensenada and the availablility of someone to fix your boat or help you off a grounding diminishes substantially. CA coast is pretty good for cruising -- South of Santa Barbara. Have you considered leaving the boat in Mexico. San Carlos, Sonora has places where you can keep the boat during hurricane season (out of the hurricane belt) and the Sea of Cortez has wonderful cruising grounds.

But if you are already on the East Coast thre is alot more cruising there than here -- except maybe Puget Sound -- but you'd have to be a polar bear to cruise there 9 months out of he year. Before I offer any suggestions on boats I would want to know is that $110k for the boat outfitted or just the boat. I might suggest that you look for a $70k boat put another $20k into it and keep $20k for an emergency fund.

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by D&CMartin

Can someone please explain to me how a day coastal sale in say, Panama, varies from a day sale in Ensenda or San Diego. Or why it is difficult to understand why an insurance company would require a boat that they insure in foreign waters would want that boat to be newer. Another thing is who cares how long it takes to get to waypoint b or c or d? Time is what I and mine have plenty of.

If you have to ask these questions then you are a long way from getting out there. Obviously you haven't grasp the concept of cruising outside of the protected areas you are familiar with. Finding a boat now may not be your immediate concern. First you need to know the difference between a day sail in Panama and a day sail in San Diego. The obvious is that first you have to get there. I don't mean to be harsh but you need some real experience and a lot of information on what you plan to do before you go buying a boat and really get your self and your crew in trouble or find out you can't do the trip in the boat you bought. This is not an afternoon sail on San Diego Bay and it certainly is not a motor home trip across country. Your responses to the opinions and information offered says a lot about whether this trip should be in your near future.

D&C One thing you will find with this forum is that if nothing, we are brutally honest. The fact of the matter is that all fo the responses are meant with the best of intentions. The offers, including my own, are made with the intention of providing you an oppertunity. At least, in my case, I would have gladly presented you with a link to websites with Challengers for sale, as I happen to think they are a very well suited boat for what you have in mind. Unfortunately, they do not come up for sale very often, and right now I only know of 2 others that are for sale. Both are over priced.
As for the difference between Panama, and San Diego, East Coast and West Coast, is a matter of wind and sea conditions that vary substantiall;y between locations. Not to mention, as Charlie pointed out, the availability of services if you run into problems.
I think your plans are ambitious, but not unrealistic. Take the responses you get here as a true effort, by people who have already made, and paid for many mistakes, to help you attain your goals.

[hellosailor]

D&C-
While you are looking at the constraints of your insurance company, look into marine insurance overall. And if you are financing--age of the boat is also a limiting factor for some companies.
I don't know if you have ever owned a boat before, some insurers will not accept you for certain sizes if you haven't. Others will have an issue with the age of the boat. But all of them will base your insurance price on the CRUISING AREA you choose. Northeast US? One price. Florida during hurricane season? Another price, or no coverage during named storms. Want to go more than 100 miles offshore? Across to the Pacific? You may be surprised. Unlike car insurance, you don't get the whole US in one policy--unless you pay for it.
I think there are some existing threads about marine insurance, what to ask about, what the common exclusions are, etc. on the board. It pays to ask, and if you are talking to a broker, ask them "What's missing? What are my options?" as well.
Could be a boat twice as old, with more expensive insurance, might be a less expensive way to go. You'd have to ask for quotes to find out. A good hull, properly surveryed and refit if needed, should be just as reliable at 25 as it is at 5 years of age.

[Charlie]

Have we scared D & C away?

[Lakbay dagat]

D&C, My friend sailed his westsail 32 from the west coast to the east and back. It's a fine boat both the 32 & 42. He insured his boat with trip insurance which insured his boat each leg or segment of the trip only. He had a kitty for the boat and when in the SF bay area he kept only the insurance required by the marinas. liability only I believe.

[tinawburgess]

Morgan Outisland 416 - a greata liveaboard. We have sailed our's both ways across the Atlantic without any problems. We averaged 120 miles a day (not a bad average). Have sailed her around Europe before heading back across the pond and have spent the last 2 years here in the Caribbean, Trinidad and Venezuela. We are about to head west and will do the San Blas, Belize, Mexico, Cuba etc. We eventually want to head for the Great Lakes and then have her shipped across and then do the Western shores. Don't be put off a Morgan Outisland - great boat for your bucks.