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Old 07-08-2013, 09:02   #1
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A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Since I was off cruising during the Guns and Hunters thread I will make a sensible comment that was lacking in all the posts.

The question was posed in the Liveaboard section, something that was overlooked by some posters.
I am a liveaboard and I am also Canadian, my boat is my only home so I do not have the luxury of leaving firearms at home when cruising. In Canada the term Dwelling Place can mean a boat and enjoys the same freedom from unreasonable search as any home on land.

I am also a hunter /target shooter and have been for over 50 years, therefore I own firearms, both long guns and handgun and keep them at "home".

Canadian Firearms law is pretty specific in regards to storage and no more onerous than many US States.

Long guns must be unloaded and trigger locked when not in use. Ammunition must be stored separately but not necessarily locked up.

Handguns must be unloaded, trigger locked and kept in a locked safe, however ammunition may be stored in the same safe.

In Canada:
You may cruise with handguns without the benefit of obtaining a transport permit as your firearms never actually leave your dwelling place.

In the US:
Canadians can get a Form 6 temporary import permit from the ATF to bring firearms with them. It is a simple form that allows multiple entries and is good for one year. There is no fee and takes about two weeks to obtain.
The ATF recently dropped the requirement of having a valid State hunting license to issue a Form 6. Check the State Laws that may apply for prolonged visits to one State but generally the Federal Safe Passage Laws allow you to transit any State without obtaining a State Permit.

I have a companionway rack for my long guns which together with trigger locks that meets all State and Provincial rules.
I have a small safe through bolted and 5200 in place in an obscure locker for the rest which also meets the needs of every Province and State where I cruise.

There, that wasn't so hard was it? The OP in the original thread asked a specific question pertaining to liveaboards about a situation that is not that relevant to weekend cruisers but got dumped on.
I thought this forum was bigger than that.

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:14   #2
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Hi, the other Gary,

So far as I know, Canada is generally more reasonable about their weapons than the US, and so also do the citizens seem to be.

However, the moment you try to bring the weapons to foreign countries, a host of difficulties are likely to occur. Many places, they must be placed under Customs control, and you arrange to get them back when you leave the country. In addition, in some countries, slingshots, and crossbows are also confiscated, and giving ammunition to natives may bet you deported.

Ann
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:39   #3
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Mate all this arsenal in a Bayliner 39 and for hunting?? do you plan to hunt in USA? To me sounds a good recipe for troubles.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:09   #4
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

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Mate all this arsenal in a Bayliner 39 and for hunting?? do you plan to hunt in USA? To me sounds a good recipe for troubles.

Doesn't sound problematic to me.

He's properly storing firearms in his home, he's properly applying via relevant paperwork when traveling to the US, the US has relatively straightforward provision for cross-State and non-citizen hunters, no big deal. Nor did I see any reason to use the word "arsenal" -- although it seems popular in the press these days when referring to 2 or more firearms.

If I recall, the original thread was not about "whether" -- but rather about "how." Gary's note here seems to address that (for this area of the world) reasonably well.

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Old 07-08-2013, 11:57   #5
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

I do not see any issue if you are using your guns in you countries that allow you to carry guns.

Please keep your guns there. And when you go cruising to places where people do not carry guns, please do not bring your own.

Thank you,
barnakiel
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Old 07-08-2013, 16:53   #6
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Oh well, some years agoo i be in the same situation, not by me, by the owner, a 22 cal rifle, a magnum, 2 12 cal shootguns,and sounds crazy but also something similar to a AK 47, 3 FULL BOXES full of ammo, apart from the pain in the ass to declare firearms at arrival and in almost all the check ins leaving the weapons at customs , be in jail for 2 nights in Cadiz Spain, one full day at the police station in Majorca Balearic islands, 1 more day at jail in Trinidad, and lots of anoying problems, seems to me is just no sense to have such a big amount of weapons, could be ok in USA, but if the guy in question try to cruise the outside of USA , be ready for a nightmare in bureaucratic BS, not to mention that if your ammo list in custom is wrong for 1 bullet, expect jail in some countrys... wonder if is worth....
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Old 07-08-2013, 17:05   #7
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Guns ?...nuts....they only have one purpose...to kill
Why does anyone need an arsenal on board...planning a war somewhere ???
I want to be as far away as possible from gun crazed people.
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Old 07-08-2013, 17:12   #8
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

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Originally Posted by Albro359 View Post
Guns ?...nuts....they only have one purpose...to kill
Why does anyone need an arsenal on board...planning a war somewhere ???
I want to be as far away as possible from gun crazed people.
I dunno, can we start a thread '50 uses for guns' and find some others?

I'll start, 1. Incredibly effective in raising money for the NRA
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Old 07-08-2013, 17:28   #9
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albro359 View Post
Guns ?...nuts....they only have one purpose...to kill
Why does anyone need an arsenal on board...planning a war somewhere ???
I want to be as far away as possible from gun crazed people.
guns are great for hunting,same as fishing lines are for fishing.

never killed anything tha wasnt for the pot apart from a few misadventures in africa........though to be fair they had guns as well
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Old 07-08-2013, 17:56   #10
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

***SIGH*** Gun and anchor threads rapidly deteriorate into mud slinging..... PLEASE THINK AND CONSIDER HOW YOUR POST WILL BE RECEIVED BY OTHERS WHO MAY NOT SHARE YOUR VIEW POINT... BEFORE POSTING
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Old 07-08-2013, 18:57   #11
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Old 07-08-2013, 19:15   #12
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Old 07-08-2013, 19:32   #13
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Well, it was not my intention to open up a can of worms here. Rather I was trying to answer a question that was posted in good faith, yet was treated with ridicule rather that informed answers.

I too want to be as far away as possible from gun crazed people.
I think we all agree on that.

I understand that some people have no use for firearms just as much as I enjoy target shooting but hate golf.
I do not advocate banning golf clubs just because Tiger's wife used one on him.
It was the person, not the golf club that did the deed.

I am, along with millions of others, a responsible person and ask only that you think a little before posting your views because what you advocate could just as easily be compared to the rigging knife you carry in your pocket or the automobile you drive when it is actually the knife wielder or the drunk driver.

'nuff said.
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Old 07-08-2013, 19:48   #14
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

I'm going to try to keep this thread on the high road & just post some useful information that Gary may not be aware of.

In the US, the gun laws vary wildly from state to state & sometimes even from county to county or town to town.

If you have a legally owned gun in AZ, AK or VT, you really need to actually do something wrong with it, like point it at somebody or walk into a court room with it, or discharge in within city limits or handle it in an unsafe way, in order to get into trouble. These states don't even require you to have a permit to carry a handgun.

If you go to states like NY, CA, MA, or NJ, You will find yourself at the opposite end of the spectrum. If you dock up near Orchard Beach in NY, you will find that the local law requires you to have a NY permit just to keep a firearm (even a BB gun) in your residence. When I lived in NYC, I was unable to get a permit to keep a BB gun in my residence, even though I had previously been licensed to carry concealed handguns in more than 20 states & had a federal gun dealer's license.

The safe passage law that you refer to is probably the federal gun owners protection act of 1984 (as amended). At the time of my last reading, it basically said that you can transport firearms from any place in the US where it is legal to posses them to any other place in the US where it is legal to posses them, as long as they are locked in the trunk of the car, unloaded & the ammo is separate. You can stop to get gas & a burger, but not deviate unreasonably from a direct route between the two places (i.e. don't go driving around with a bunch of guns all the time). There are several other details involved, but that is the basic quick working description of that law. If one of your stops is a place that you are not allowed to have the gun, then the entire protection is nullified. If you were referring to a different safe passage law, please let me know what it was. I would enjoy learning more about any additional safe passage laws that I am not currently aware of.

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 07-08-2013, 20:25   #15
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Re: A sensible reply to a closed thread, Guns

Jim, my cruising grounds are Ontario to Florida via the Erie canal, Hudson and ICW.
The two sticky States are NY and NJ. I have emails from both NY State Police and NJ State Police in my bundle of paperwork acknowledging that I cannot transit the State by boat without stopping for several nights on the Erie canal and that inclement weather may impede passage. As long as I do not deviate from a direct route or stop to visit for a week I am still covered by Federal Law. In fact there is presently a bill before the NY Senate that will allow visitors to bring handguns with them for tourism related issues beyond NRA sanctioned events as it was determined that tourism dollars were driving straight through the state and going elsewhere.
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