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Old 31-01-2016, 23:07   #1
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9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

I already introduced other thread in CF concerning aftermath of Paris attacks. Without being paranoia or afraid to cruise and liveaboard cruising areas less known, like East African coastal cruisong areas, I am extremely worried about harassment by local authorities in these areas. The Southern-East African organisation SADC has yesterday piinted out terrorism as the most serioys treat to stability if the area! Law enforcement, like maritime police, port authorities, maritime authorities representatives have been called in SADC to train how to deal with terrorism, identify treats. The most suspected are boats, yachts that frequent the coasts of SADC. Please check for yourself which countries are member of SADC to understand the impact on our freedom of movement as cruisers. I git this information from friends in these organizations who know how I live and warn me that our days of unconcerned free cruising are numbered. It is equally obvious that the developed nations, which have instituted stringent security measures in their own nation, ie France's emergency status for unlimited time, Schengen change etc , pressurize thevSADC nations and I am sure other nations to equally clamp down on terrorism making us innocentbsailors victims of this in the process. You can ask me why I again call attention to this using the 9 Americans arrest, well I know how in areas like SADC you are not innocent until proven otherwise. What stabdards will be used to judge who you are, an innocent sailor or a treat to national security. Have any of you ever been in situation where guns were pointed at you face by people who are members of law enforcement but who only see yacht liveboards as suspect. The new culture if law enforcement in SADC used to be more sensitivity for human rights in general! Now those developed nations, who still control the economies of many less developed countries, by donations ie IMF $280 million, EU 200 million yesterday to Mozambique, want the recipients of the donations to flunk human rights by arresting anyone suspected of terrorism and keep them locked up without proper charge or justice involved. I can already imagine the posts of some very cynical CF members but I think CF members should come together to make it very ckear that there is such a social group as yachtsmen, cruising sailors, liveaboards who actually cruise on their own power and pose no treat to the stability, peace of any country.
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Old 31-01-2016, 23:43   #2
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Hummmm, really a bit at a loss to what your point is. And the headline?

Are there any examples of yachties being harrassed?

And your comment, "want the recipients of the donations to flunk human rights by arresting anyone suspected of terrorism and keep them locked up without proper charge or justice involved". ----- like the USA does you mean?

This seems to be the indicent your referring too, but what it has to do with sailors i have no idea.

https://news.vice.com/article/9-amer...n-saudi-arabia
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:41   #3
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Hummmm, really a bit at a loss to what your point is. And the headline?

Are there any examples of yachties being harrassed?

And your comment, "want the recipients of the donations to flunk human rights by arresting anyone suspected of terrorism and keep them locked up without proper charge or justice involved". ----- like the USA does you mean?

This seems to be the indicent your referring too, but what it has to do with sailors i have no idea.

https://news.vice.com/article/9-amer...n-saudi-arabia

Sorry you are right I didnt make my point clear enough. Sailors are now automatically suspect, behave suspect, they liveaboard, according to new SADC internal advise to their law enforcing authorities. The criteria used to decide whetther you are a genuine fool (who would want to live in a boat on te water when he can afford a yacht) , eccentric ( what on earth you do on you or inside your boat), or are you a terrorist facilitating, helping, encouraging, participating in terrorist activities!? The authorities used to be carefull with foreign visiting yachts partly as they didnt want to upset their donors, now their paranoia donors, for heaven sake look how France, UK, .... have become paranoia communities, with private citizen rights being disregarded, tell them to deal harshly with any suspect behavior, focusing on yachts. This because yachtsmen cruising the workd are irritating as they travel on their own power and pop up everywhere around the world. So point is kargely who decides that you simple innocent sailor cruiser are as innocent as you purport to be. The 9 Americans did what tonbe judged to be terrorists, they coukd be innocent or they could be terrorists. The selective nature of treating obviously suspect behavior like cruising with a yacht is extremely worrying to us living the liveaboard life in ie SADC countries.
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:47   #4
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

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Sorry you are right I didnt make my point clear enough. Sailors are now automatically suspect, behave suspect, they liveaboard, according to new SADC internal advise to their law enforcing authorities. The criteria used to decide whetther you are a genuine fool (who would want to live in a boat on te water when he can afford a yacht) , eccentric ( what on earth you do on you or inside your boat), or are you a terrorist facilitating, helping, encouraging, participating in terrorist activities!? The authorities used to be carefull with foreign visiting yachts partly as they didnt want to upset their donors, now their paranoia donors, for heaven sake look how France, UK, .... have become paranoia communities, with private citizen rights being disregarded, tell them to deal harshly with any suspect behavior, focusing on yachts. This because yachtsmen cruising the workd are irritating as they travel on their own power and pop up everywhere around the world. So point is kargely who decides that you simple innocent sailor cruiser are as innocent as you purport to be. The 9 Americans did what tonbe judged to be terrorists, they coukd be innocent or they could be terrorists. The selective nature of treating obviously suspect behavior like cruising with a yacht is extremely worrying to us living the liveaboard life in ie SADC countries.
If some countries are treating sailors as suspect and as terrorists, then you are entirely right to be concerned. BUT what is your belief this is happening?

And what 'rights' of UK and French citizens are being infringed?

Theres martial law occuring in Paris, bu how is that affecting sailors?
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Old 01-02-2016, 02:01   #5
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9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
If some countries are treating sailors as suspect and as terrorists, then you are entirely right to be concerned. BUT what is your belief this is happening?



And what 'rights' of UK and French citizens are being infringed?



Theres martial law occuring in Paris, bu how is that affecting sailors?

Please read my posting well, I wrote about SADC countries being advised to treat cruising yacht visiting and their occupants as supsoect, potential terrorists. I got it from good source that management law enforcement maritime authorithies have been dalled to advise exactly that in SADC!

You dont think that if a simple policeman wanting to enter your house can do so on his own authority without a warrant. This is now possible in France, Belgium, Germany etc... What you think martial law effect isvon your personal rights, it does away with all of them!

France has sold patrol boats to Mozambique to be delivered today so Mozambique can patrol Coast better, at the same time France advises to suspect yachts, you dont think this affects free spirited cruising sailors? Why SADC important, simple lots of Muslims, potential for terrorism!

I mentioned that last weeks SADC conference on security singked out terrorism as largest treat to stability of the SADC countries. You realize that even Seychelles is member of SADC! A favorite cruising area even for large charter companies.Then there is South Africa where sailing as sport has been squeezed for years seen as white people activity! Add to that the new view as suspect of terrorism of yachties....

I repeat we have to do something to boost the image of the innocent sailing cruising liveaboard who enjoys travellibg on his own power and time.
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Old 01-02-2016, 03:24   #6
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

You seem to be on a bit of a rant giving a speech.

Germany, police need warrants to search houses. Dont know about the others, it might depend on the seriousness of the suspect crime or like in Australia whether your in persuit of someone having been suspected of certain crimes.

There is nothing wrong in authorities warning member countries that potential terrorists could be entering via crusing yachts. That does not mean all cruisers are susoected of being terroritsts.
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:20   #7
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

if any thing the the threat of terror will work in quite the opposite way,opening up countries and new destinations.

many developing countries rely greatly on money earned from tourism,(in my opinion) ,as tourism drops off due to perceived risks ,loss of revenue will generate a climate whereby these countries will implement policies to ensure the tourism comes back.

india is currently building about 5 new marinas,as is sri lanka.
the Andaman and nicobar islands are now on the cruising route due to greatly relaxed checkin procedures,burma will be next on the list.

Egypt , Tunisia and turkey are trying very hard to promote tourism in the European press to undo any negative pulblicity received recently.

even places like the comores are trying to promote tourism and yachting visitors to anjouan and moheli.

I could go on but the dollar/euro/pound is stiil king,and tourism rules.
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:56   #8
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

I'm still missing how this relates to Saudi Arabia? Last I knew even flying in as a tourist hasn't been allowed for years (exceptions for work permits and religious purposes).

Seems like a lot of paranoia.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:58   #9
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

I thought everyone in Saudi Arabia supported terrorism already. Aren't they they the major funding source for most of it?
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:10   #10
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pirate Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

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I thought everyone in Saudi Arabia supported terrorism already. Aren't they they the major funding source for most of it?
Well they practice 'Sharia Law'.. which is Terrorism in itself but is accepted by Western Gov's...
Hell.. even the UK Parliament is moving into a building under Sharia control..
"How manys $$$'s..?? Just a moment while I clean my nose for you...
Nowhere is safe anymore... St Katherine's dock is just downstream..
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:36   #11
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

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I'm still missing how this relates to Saudi Arabia? Last I knew even flying in as a tourist hasn't been allowed for years (exceptions for work permits and religious purposes).

Seems like a lot of paranoia.
"Seems like a lot of paranoia"....I would rather be paranoid than in jail or dead ...All that enjoy traveling around the world should be very concerned about what is about to happen in regard to "freedom of movement"....Any snow in Moscow right now ? Last time a country said that they were going to connect east to west or west to east (believe it was Germany circa 1900 with the grand vision of a rail line to that port south of Bagdad) they started the big one.. I have heard the rumblings of such ventures as of late..The board has been set up and now the moves are being made some to the detriment of fun loving people that enjoy traveling the world...The election that is about to happen(Nov.2016) in the USA is going to decide if we can push this ugly scenerio 4 -8 years down the road or if the "right" gets their wish it starts the day they take office(Trump said "bomb'um and take the oil") We aint seen nothing yet.. ..
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:22   #12
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

I think the initial thread has wandered somewhat. There does seem to be a growing tendency to consider yotties as a potential threat in some area's. A number of years ago we had this experience ourselves. We had transited the Red Sea and entered the Med, enroute to Cyprus and our winter berth. Our plans were disrupted by the Israeli military who intercepted us mid-way across the Med. They placed a number of armed marines on board and ordered us to sail to Ashkelon, Israel. Once there, our boat was searched numerous times for the consignment of weapons they said they knew we had aboard. After searching our little cat over and over they eventually conceded their famed intelligence service had gotten it wrong. We were their 'guests' for the winter as we had lost our berth in Cyprus and then had to stay in Israel for the winter. Yes, they charged us the full fee's plus an extra charge as we not not pre-booked, despite the marina being only partially occupied! Guest indeeed .....
We have found that the Comoro Islands to have a very corrupt harbour master in Grand Comore (this may have changed as it was several years ago we last visited) whilst the other islands are fairly welcoming - Mayotte especially. It is scary that countries could create an incident out of zero and then wrap it under guise of terrorism. It is also just as easy for the same countries to share info. about our boats and crew as not being under suspicion but that might also reduce security. Suffering the demand for backhanders / baksheesh is getting more challenging. Having terrorism threats potentially being levelled at us brings a whole new dimension to cruising.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:33   #13
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Most of the world works on the theory that you a guilty until proven innocent. Seems to be a coming fad in the US also.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:36   #14
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

I repeat we have to do something to boost the image of the innocent sailing cruising liveaboard who enjoys travellibg on his own power and time.<<

Such as...?
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:49   #15
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Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Having sailed The Red Sea from Aden to Suez, twice it is very clear, that Saudi Arabia do not want cruisers of any kind. They have no marinas anywhere that can accept cruisers, along their coast. Once we went into Jedda, a commercial port. We tried to call them on VHF 16, but no answer. The reason for our call was to get fuel and Food for our yacht. When we approached the port the Harbour police approached us and ordered us to follow them to the Coast Guard base dock. We explained our dilemma, they were very polite and called in a ships agent to help us with our problem. He arrived at mid night, and when he saw our list of about $100. grocery and a tank of Diesel. He politely in formed us that his fee for ships is $ 3,000. He said that he would be back tomorrow, he never came.
We were not allowed to leave the boat. Finally a tugboat owner gave us 80 litres of diesel and some these and a loaf of bread. With that we were able to cross over to Port Calib Egypt. No problems there. The Saudi Goast guard guys told us that they do not want cruiser in Saudi Arabia.
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