Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-02-2016, 11:10   #16
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Hi Pexor ....... We have sailed the route seven times now and have also been into Jeddah. We received quite different treatment. We have also been into Yanbu and rec'd excellent care from the coastguard. Both times we have been refuelled and had shopping done for us. On one occassion the coastguard refused payment totally, plus the captain gave us a large bag of treats, especially for the kids.

We have only entered Saudi waters due to having mechanical difficulties that we managed to resolve ourselves pretty quickly once in sheltered waters and after a good nights rest!
Not withstanding, we have been treated with respect and offered assistance - but am also aware that your own experience is likely more common.

I accept that it might be having a multitude of friendly, grinning blonde haired, green eyed kids that makes a difference and that my wife (the source of the blonde hair and green eyes) makes the effort to cover up and to stay in the background - which is not her normal behaviour but does accord with the local culture.






Quote:
Originally Posted by pexor View Post
Having sailed The Red Sea from Aden to Suez, twice it is very clear, that Saudi Arabia do not want cruisers of any kind. They have no marinas anywhere that can accept cruisers, along their coast. Once we went into Jedda, a commercial port. We tried to call them on VHF 16, but no answer. The reason for our call was to get fuel and Food for our yacht. When we approached the port the Harbour police approached us and ordered us to follow them to the Coast Guard base dock. We explained our dilemma, they were very polite and called in a ships agent to help us with our problem. He arrived at mid night, and when he saw our list of about $100. grocery and a tank of Diesel. He politely in formed us that his fee for ships is $ 3,000. He said that he would be back tomorrow, he never came.
We were not allowed to leave the boat. Finally a tugboat owner gave us 80 litres of diesel and some these and a loaf of bread. With that we were able to cross over to Port Calib Egypt. No problems there. The Saudi Goast guard guys told us that they do not want cruiser in Saudi Arabia.
__________________

__________________
Bulawayo is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 11:36   #17
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

For over a decade, the NYC Harbor Patrol have been routinely treating "all" boaters as possible terrorists, as part of the city's program to prevent a dirty bomb from being detonated in Manhattan. There are some serious published studies that indicate the entire island would have to be quarantined for 100 years after the event, so there's some real concern about radioactive materials being smuggled in.


Although the details are not surprisingly classified, apparently there are highly sensitive radiation detectors aboard the NYC HP boats. Some years ago they stopped some guys in a small fishing boat in the western end of LI Sound, near the Hell Gate. It turned out one of the guys had had radioactive iodine "seeds" implanted recently to treat prostate cancer. That's how sensitive the equipment is, and how serious some places are about the casual way that almost anything can be moved in small boats.
Smuggling is an old, lucrative, and widespread business.


Hey, you can't bring a jar of peanut butter or a package of spreadable cheese onto an airplane in the US either. The TSA tells us they can't tell if it is food, or plastique explosive.


Paranoid? Wrong?


Cultivate psychosis and refuse to treat or pursue the crazies, and sure, you're going to have some problems.
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 11:58   #18
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Whangaparaoa,NZ
Boat: 63 ft John Spencer Schooner
Posts: 956
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

The terrorists have already won
__________________

dana-tenacity is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 12:03   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Being a rather ecumenical sailboat, we had a close friend stenciled a traditional Arabic prayer on our boom gallows in gold leaf. Sure did not hurt in our mucking around the Arabian Peninsula. Met a lot of fishermen, military, and port authorities. Probably times have changed a lot, but back then it was embarrassing since they considered us as guests and would pay for everything.
As in a previous poster, we did not wear bathing suits, nor shorts.
In lots of the world, it also helps to wear a hat signifying one's "profession". Thus an old captain's hat really does come in handy.
Also, it does not hurt to wear a white shirt with long pants and your captain hat when dealing with port authorities. Many parts of the world really take offense when americans show up in shorts, tee shirts, and bare feet.
__________________
reed1v is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 12:11   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: fl- various marinas
Boat: morgan O/I 33' sloop
Posts: 1,100
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Cruisers need to be aware of political situations. Saudi Arabia and Turkey support Wahhabi Sunni terrorists. Iran is essentially at war with America,
Venezuela is about to implode, etc. Assuming good will towards Westerners without evidence is just dumb.
__________________
Dave22q is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 12:14   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 753
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

You asked if I ever had a gun put on me by police. When I was in Moscow I was pulled out of the taxi by military. They had a machine gun trained on me by a pimple faced kid. His finger was not alongside the trigger, it was on the trigger. They checked my American passport smiled and said spoikonye noche!

Chechnya men had blown up a metro station earlier that year. Putin had been hard at them for years. Simply said, "it ain't your daddy's or grandad' planet anymore." Do u think it is going to get less militarized? Governments are trying to avoid 911's and Paris style attacks all over the world. In fact, this might not be a popular opinion, but it is one of their primary duties to not only protect their people but insure that they are not overthrown by radicals whose sole intent is to destabilize and convert all people to Muslim ways. These are radicals and not main stream Muslims.
__________________
alansmith is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 12:24   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

The comment was made that "nowhere is safe ANYMORE".
I am not sure that anywhere ever was safe.
Before the information age (maybe as little as 30 years ago) all the same kind of things were happening that are happening now but the average person was not keenly aware of it.
Terrorists have been blowing people up ever since bombs were invented. Innocent people have been locked away in dungeons by unfriendly governments, property confiscated, hostages taken, people executed, robbed, murdered, raped, pillaged, ransacked, burned at the stake...
This planet has never been safe.
In fact, one might argue that it is safer now than ever because we at least have the information to make decisions about where to go and when we should, or should not, go there.
Is safety an illusion that is a defensive response to fear?
__________________
Liam Wald is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 00:16   #23
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Africa
Boat: catalac 10m
Posts: 351
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Today's digital capability makes one also can't hide like in the past. If you as youth mistake were a member of a maoist communist action group and marched in protest against labor abuse it is very likely, even if it happened 40. years ago that you can be on an international blavklist, ie interpol. You might have led an examplary life after that youth sin but explain that to a patrol boat crew now having satelite connection to interpol able to screen you!
__________________
Goosebumps is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 00:32   #24
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

This is so true of area's that we sail. A little respect goes a long way......perhaps we expect too much of some nations that we visit. We need to recognise, even if we dont accept, other cultures expectations. I can not accept the Saudi's view on women not having certain rights, but I, and my wife, understand that this is their current position and if we wish to visit then we have to abide by their position, regardless of what is normal practice in other places.
Going into Saudi waters I pull on long trousers, wear a long sleeved shirt and my wife and daughter also cover up, ankle to wrist and wear a head scarve and stay in the background. My sons wear similar to myself. It is very apparent that the Saudi's recognise what we have done and have commented positively about our conduct. Normally we would all be less covered. We all have learnt to speak adequate Arabic as well as we have cruised the Indian Ocean and Red Sea pretty extensively. We are now starting to learn basic French and Spanish for when we head west to Central/South America and the Pacific.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Being a rather ecumenical sailboat, we had a close friend stenciled a traditional Arabic prayer on our boom gallows in gold leaf. Sure did not hurt in our mucking around the Arabian Peninsula. Met a lot of fishermen, military, and port authorities. Probably times have changed a lot, but back then it was embarrassing since they considered us as guests and would pay for everything.
As in a previous poster, we did not wear bathing suits, nor shorts.
In lots of the world, it also helps to wear a hat signifying one's "profession". Thus an old captain's hat really does come in handy.
Also, it does not hurt to wear a white shirt with long pants and your captain hat when dealing with port authorities. Many parts of the world really take offense when americans show up in shorts, tee shirts, and bare feet.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 01:08   #25
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
The comment was made that "nowhere is safe ANYMORE".
I am not sure that anywhere ever was safe.
Before the information age (maybe as little as 30 years ago) all the same kind of things were happening that are happening now but the average person was not keenly aware of it.
Terrorists have been blowing people up ever since bombs were invented. Innocent people have been locked away in dungeons by unfriendly governments, property confiscated, hostages taken, people executed, robbed, murdered, raped, pillaged, ransacked, burned at the stake...
This planet has never been safe.
In fact, one might argue that it is safer now than ever because we at least have the information to make decisions about where to go and when we should, or should not, go there.
Is safety an illusion that is a defensive response to fear?
OMG this thread has attracted some weird posts with some not too familiar posters. Are you all just sitting in the background looking for conspiracies? : 666 and its time

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 01:10   #26
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,019
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
This is so true of area's that we sail. A little respect goes a long way......perhaps we expect too much of some nations that we visit. We need to recognise, even if we dont accept, other cultures expectations. I can not accept the Saudi's view on women not having certain rights, but I, and my wife, understand that this is their current position and if we wish to visit then we have to abide by their position, regardless of what is normal practice in other places.
Going into Saudi waters I pull on long trousers, wear a long sleeved shirt and my wife and daughter also cover up, ankle to wrist and wear a head scarve and stay in the background. My sons wear similar to myself. It is very apparent that the Saudi's recognise what we have done and have commented positively about our conduct. Normally we would all be less covered. We all have learnt to speak adequate Arabic as well as we have cruised the Indian Ocean and Red Sea pretty extensively. We are now starting to learn basic French and Spanish for when we head west to Central/South America and the Pacific.
Your post is a testament how low the Western prestige in the rest of the world have fallen in the past 30-40 years that now you have to be "just like them" instead of "them" looking up to the Westerners and their way of life. Not putting any value judgment on who is right, just stating the obvious. And of course, unless things change in the near future, we'll have to live with this new reality that we in the West are not the leaders of the world anymore but just "also runs".
__________________
Island Time O25 is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 01:15   #27
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Your post is a testament how low the Western prestige in the rest of the world have fallen in the past 30-40 years that now you have to be "just like them" instead of "them" looking up to the Westerners and their way of life. Not putting any value judgment on who is right, just stating the obvious. And of course, unless things change in the near future, we'll have to live with this new reality that we in the West are not the leaders of the world anymore but just "also runs".
Absolute rubbish. Your ethnocentricism is showing. His post is a rare testimoney of how respectful visitors should act when in anothers country. Well done to him he and his family give yachties a good name.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 01:29   #28
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,019
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Absolute rubbish. Your ethnocentricism is showing. His post is a rare testimoney of how respectful visitors should act when in anothers country. Well done to him he and his family give yachties a good name.
I specifically stated that I was not putting a value judgment on this but you in your righteous multicultural zeal could not abstain from making a rash judgment.

Oh and btw, when that multicultural kumbaya world of yours will achieve even 1/10th of what our "ethnocentric" one has achieved come and talk to me then.

PS Would you yourself "go native" in some of these places? Such as buying a 7 year old bride or caning your wife? And if not don't hypocritically pontificate about "giving yachties a good name".

PPS I definitely would not want to visit, let alone to blend-in in, any country which would expect my g/f to cover up or which would prevent me from practicing my own religion (or the absence thereof). That's not "ethnocentrism", that's a simple desire not to be subjugated to someone else's barbaric beliefs.
__________________
Island Time O25 is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 02:11   #29
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
I specifically stated that I was not putting a value judgment on this but you in your righteous multicultural zeal could not abstain from making a rash judgment.

Oh and btw, when that multicultural kumbaya world of yours will achieve even 1/10th of what our "ethnocentric" one has achieved come and talk to me then.

PS Would you yourself "go native" in some of these places? Such as buying a 7 year old bride or caning your wife? And if not don't hypocritically pontificate about "giving yachties a good name".

PPS I definitely would not want to visit, let alone to blend-in in, any country which would expect my g/f to cover up or which would prevent me from practicing my own religion (or the absence thereof). That's not "ethnocentrism", that's a simple desire not to be subjugated to someone else's barbaric beliefs.
Yeah, your 'not putting a value jusgement on it' is the 'im not racist BUT.... ' and your 'btw' statement what the dickens did that mean?

And 'buying a 7 year old bride' what the? You refer to the most extreemist and rarest of incidents not accepted in any modernised country anywhere..

And 'covering up' is not barbarism its respect for others.. Good thing you wont visit those countries because your behaviour is what gives yachties a bad name.

To the OP, you ask the question of how can we increase the positive view of yachties? Make damn sure behaviours exhibited like these are not common. Be respectful of the countries you visit. Not only the countries you visit but also the people groups within countries you visit. Such as Malasia, Egypt, Northern Australia. Many many others. Dont impose your views, like this poster on others.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline  
Old 03-02-2016, 02:36   #30
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: 9 Americans arrested in Saudi Arabia accused of cobtact with terrorists

Hi Rustic Charm ...... I dont agree with 100% with either of your views but do agree, to some extent with elements of both.
Sadly, the child bride situation exists in many countries. It is not as rare as you state. Indeed, in Britain, which many shall agree is a pretty modern country, there is a move to acceptance of Sharia law. Girls there are being subject to mutilation of genitalia mutilation in the name of religion. The UK has also known honour killings in the name of religion. I wish it were correct that these situations are rare but travel to many Islamic nations and you'll discover that they are not rare but actually very common place - normal in fact. Again, countries like India and Nigeria which are not presently Islamic also suffer such happenings enmasse. I mention this due to the size of their populations. Both of these nations are headed for Islamism. That does not immediately make them 'bad' nations but when the extremists get into power then they often become less desirable places to visit. Afain, when I say extremists I refer to non necessarily representing the views of the majority of the population. Much like first world countries having extreme governments - e.g Germany and Italy in the 1930's to mid-1940's. However, their governments were elected by the population due to a decline in their economic situations. Fortunately, democracy provides for change. We have spent many a great time in Islamic countries like Oman - which are very welcoming, very, very pro-western and very relaxed in religious matters. We do, however, respect their custom of not flaunting skin in public places (the beach excepted).
As for racists, there is an element of that in many people, many governments and many other facets of life. This appears to be acceptable when displayed by some groups but not so acceptable by others. Look at what is happening in Zimbabwe right now where the Governnment openly discriminates against Europeans and Asians, as well as Zimbabweans of the alternative tribal group. Why is this only marginally commented upon by the governments of the world?
Anyway, this supposed to be a sailing community and for exchange of yottie information so I'll shut up on this sensitive subject. Best wishes to you both.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Yeah, your 'not putting a value jusgement on it' is the 'im not racist BUT.... ' and your 'btw' statement what the dickens did that mean?

And 'buying a 7 year old bride' what the? You refer to the most extreemist and rarest of incidents not accepted in any modernised country anywhere..

And 'covering up' is not barbarism its respect for others.. Good thing you wont visit those countries because your behaviour is what gives yachties a bad name.

To the OP, you ask the question of how can we increase the positive view of yachties? Make damn sure behaviours exhibited like these are not common. Be respectful of the countries you visit. Not only the countries you visit but also the people groups within countries you visit. Such as Malasia, Egypt, Northern Australia. Many many others. Dont impose your views, like this poster on others.
__________________

__________________
Bulawayo is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Med to SE Asia (overland across Saudi) Captain Ludd Indian Ocean & Red Sea 2 24-03-2014 12:17
Father accused of taking young sons recently bought sailboat TomM General Sailing Forum 13 15-04-2013 03:08
Supertanker from Arabia to US Taken Off Somalia speakeasy Indian Ocean & Red Sea 7 30-11-2009 13:06
WMI Theorist arrested... Canibul Off Topic Forum 14 19-09-2006 13:49
Saudi to Build $26-Billion New City CaptainK Indian Ocean & Red Sea 3 20-12-2005 22:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.