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Old 21-08-2014, 07:39   #16
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Re: 2,000 fine for anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - any suggestions?

Need a program like Active Captain to update all this sort of information.
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Old 21-08-2014, 07:39   #17
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Re: 2,000 fine for anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - any suggestions?

suppose it 's Ordinanza 32_2013 of Ministery for Transport and Infrastructure, so the Port Captain has signed. It 's not a local City tax or local fun act.
Unfortunately can 't translate, but as far as I can read anchoring for all vessels is prohibited because of cables and restricted areas for Navy, Capitaneria and other officials.
Can send pdf but is of poor quality
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Old 21-08-2014, 08:18   #18
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Re: 2,000 fine for anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - any suggestions?

Tellus thanks much appreciated. which article in the ordinanza do you refer to? thanks
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Old 21-08-2014, 08:45   #19
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Re: 2,000 fine for anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - any suggestions?

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Tellus thanks much appreciated. which article in the ordinanza do you refer to? thanks
# 32/13, it's ZIP-filed
ORDINANZE - Capitaneria di Porto di Porto Empedocle - Guardia Costiera
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Old 21-08-2014, 22:57   #20
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

sailabroad,

Better pay the fine, I think. Humbly ask how you can do it. I believe you may find that the authorities will not take kindly to your absconding for another part of Italy, and some places impoundment of your vessel is what will happen. Do you want to risk that?

If something like that happens again, sign the d--n paper, keep your copy, and get a local to translate for you. Sometimes, you can even find an official who can help you understand the fine. They deserve an apology, you broke their law (in spite of trying to find out what the deal was, you were unsuccessful). Otherwise you come across to them as flouting their laws. Imagine how the locals in your country of origin would react to a Haitian (or somebody) saying "I din't know about it!" How much sway do you think that would have?

My purpose here is to exhort you to make this all okay before you leave, or everyone whose yacht wears the same national flag as yours will bear the brunt of it after you have left. Please, please, leave a clean wake.

Ann
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Old 21-08-2014, 23:25   #21
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
sailabroad,

Better pay the fine, I think. Humbly ask how you can do it. I believe you may find that the authorities will not take kindly to your absconding for another part of Italy, and some places impoundment of your vessel is what will happen. Do you want to risk that?

If something like that happens again, sign the d--n paper, keep your copy, and get a local to translate for you. Sometimes, you can even find an official who can help you understand the fine. They deserve an apology, you broke their law (in spite of trying to find out what the deal was, you were unsuccessful). Otherwise you come across to them as flouting their laws. Imagine how the locals in your country of origin would react to a Haitian (or somebody) saying "I din't know about it!" How much sway do you think that would have?

My purpose here is to exhort you to make this all okay before you leave, or everyone whose yacht wears the same national flag as yours will bear the brunt of it after you have left. Please, please, leave a clean wake.

Ann


I'm usually with the "clean wake" bit, but 2000 euros is outright extortion. I wouldn't give them a dime, based solely on the amount they asked for. That'd be it for Italy for me. Officials who are allowed to get away with extortion are worse than cruisers who leave a dirty wake. It seems to have become a habit in far too many places.
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Old 21-08-2014, 23:43   #22
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
sailabroad,

Better pay the fine, I think. Humbly ask how you can do it. I believe you may find that the authorities will not take kindly to your absconding for another part of Italy, and some places impoundment of your vessel is what will happen. Do you want to risk that?

If something like that happens again, sign the d--n paper, keep your copy, and get a local to translate for you. Sometimes, you can even find an official who can help you understand the fine. They deserve an apology, you broke their law (in spite of trying to find out what the deal was, you were unsuccessful). Otherwise you come across to them as flouting their laws. Imagine how the locals in your country of origin would react to a Haitian (or somebody) saying "I din't know about it!" How much sway do you think that would have?

My purpose here is to exhort you to make this all okay before you leave, or everyone whose yacht wears the same national flag as yours will bear the brunt of it after you have left. Please, please, leave a clean wake.

Ann
Hi Ann
It doesnt quite work like that in certain countries. Rest assured, if they want the money, they will come and get it.

It has been my experience that rules DO HAVE so some leeway in enforcement, and it requires a saving of 'face' for the local authorities in order to allow the rulebreaker to get away with not paying fines.

For example, in my property in Spain, I ran into problems with unapproved building work having been done and was presented with a bill for several thousand Euros as a fine. The previous owner knew about it and did not inform me. My lawyer did not inform me on purchase. They both knew. I get stuck with the bill.

I talked with the Town Hall and they said they would send me a bill for the fine every year. I didnt understand this but basically it meant that they would not write the bill off, but would not chase me either.

Now 8 years and more have passed, and as the bill has not been paid, it is written off, and for a 1000 Euro 'settlement' all my problems go away. Everyone has a face saving day.

I would guess if the Coast Guard really WANT this money, the boat will not be permitted to leave wihout paying. Politics and being seen to do their job is also involved. There is also merit in being seen to be lenient at times. If the Marina owner knows the right people and his influence is significant, then the problem has disappeared. If not, the bill will be enforced.

Funny old world and the rules and cultural differences make it what it is. Having been stung for lots of money over the years in similar situations, I have found it best to find a local who knows the ropes and is a good advisor. Some requests for money you cough up and some you defer.

Today will be a day to find out.
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Old 22-08-2014, 01:07   #23
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

Hi Anne, We actually went to the coast guard with the hope of sorting it out, we were quite prepared to pay and have a clean slate to be able to continue sailing here..it might have simplified everything if we had paid..but in the office they either didn't find the fine or "disapeared" it..

We also waited another day here in the case they really wanted the money - and it was some mess-up with the delivery of the fine - no one called the marina guy or us sooo..

But we're off in an hour and will radio for permission to leave - we'll see what happens then.
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Old 22-08-2014, 01:18   #24
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailabroad View Post
Hi Anne, We actually went to the coast guard with the hope of sorting it out, we were quite prepared to pay and have a clean slate to be able to continue sailing here..it might have simplified everything if we had paid..but in the office they either didn't find the fine or "disapeared" it..

We also waited another day here in the case they really wanted the money - and it was some mess-up with the delivery of the fine - no one called the marina guy or us sooo..

But we're off in an hour and will radio for permission to leave - we'll see what happens then.
Good luck!
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Old 22-08-2014, 02:48   #25
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

A similar situation happened to us when we anchored off Isla conilera in Ibiza. We read the guide which recommended a nice walk to the lighthouse so we swam ashore with our dog. 30 seconds later the authorities arrived and told us to return to our boat. They came aboard and told us the island was off limits and proceeded to write a fine for a couple of hundred euros.
We chatted to them and tried to explain. They said yes we know the guidebook you have is wrong but bad luck. Anyway, long story short, one of the guys was about to visit Australia for a long bike ride and after chatting a bit longer he told us we will probably not hear anything more about the fine. I was concerned as it was all very official and written in their fine book, but 2 years later we still haven't received a fine. Good luck, hope it works out the same for you.
Details of that encounter here
http://sephinacat.blogspot.pt/2012/0...-to-ibiza.html
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Old 23-08-2014, 12:20   #26
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

We left port this morning without having to pay the fine.

With the help of another local (who spoke English) we think this is how things went: it appears that the very helpful Guiseppe, using his contacts in the Coast Guards, managed to move the fine to a warning. He told us we should have come and told him about this the minute we arrived as it would have been a more certain outcome.

If there is still this fine against our name and boat we don't know for certain.
What we do know is that the fine won't be enforced this time (it's like a yellow card in a soccer match)... but it sounds like if anything else would come up with the coast guards they wont be so lenient.

Still some uncertainty; so be assured we will contact every coastguard/port we approach from now on to make sure what regulations are in place.

Being the height of the holiday season plus the challenging situation with African boat refugees along the coast here could have made things more tensed than usual. Porto Empedocle is a good place. We both really liked it and hope others won't be put off by our story to visit this port.
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Old 27-08-2014, 01:00   #27
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

I'm thankful that this worked out for you.

Years ago, when I had my little Piver in San Diego, you used to be required to get a 'Fishing Permit' from the Mexican consulate before you entered Mexican waters. When I arrived to buy it, I inquired why I had to do this as I had no intention to fish nor did I have any fishing gear on the boat and the gentleman smiled and replied, 'So the Consular Staff can have their Christmas Party.' I think he was only half joking.

Whether it is for the 'Consular Christmas party' or to pay for some highly critical project, we have to pay the required graft so we can enjoy the surrounds with little or no further official harassment.

As you wisely stated, call ahead for information and be careful where you anchor!
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Old 27-08-2014, 10:18   #28
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

sailabroad very well handled given the situation, fare winds!
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Old 27-08-2014, 11:23   #29
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

southern europe is broke at the moment,so buyer beware.
cross your T's and Dot your I's,check noonsite regularly,go to pot lucks and hang out with the people coming the other way for info.

no different to travelling in any 3rd world country lol
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Old 27-08-2014, 16:33   #30
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Re: 2,000 Euro Fine for Anchoring in Porto di Empedocle, Silicy - Any Suggestions?

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southern europe is broke at the moment,so buyer beware.
cross your T's and Dot your I's,check noonsite regularly,go to pot lucks and hang out with the people coming the other way for info.

no different to travelling in any 3rd world country lol

Given the boats the crowded harbours , the cars. I don't see much " broke"

Dave


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