1st Time "LiveAboard" Need Help Budgeting Annually

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Kurt_Pollett

Hi Guys, I'am currently in Sailing School and looking to do a Stink of "Living Aboard" for a year or two. Kurt

I find after just a week or so of bad weather, I stink all I can stand. A year or two? Wow

[Stu Jackson]

BandB's advice and others are helpful. But we really can't answer your question because we simply don't know you at all. Or your boat and condition. It's like kinda asking a stranger: "What's the best _____ for me?" Only YOU can make those decisions. Spaghetti is a lot less expensive than steak, for example.

Good luck, you're at the beginning of a process. Again, only YOU can decide how detailed you want to get. Some folks do it on the back of an envelope, others do amazingly complicated spreadsheets.

What did we spend on our boat? Bought a 12 year old boat in 1998 for $54K. Over the past 15+ years I've put almost all of that amount into care, feeding and maintenance, not including dockage, insurance, fuel or trips to other marinas. I'd say 50% of that was in the first 2 or 3 years, and the boat was pristine when we go her. I had to buy a new charger, update the electrical system, replace some standing rigging and the jib furler, new alternator & wiring, battery monitor, etc. But your budget will be different 'cuz you have to include those dockage, insurance, fuel or trips to other marinas things.

All this proves that everyone is vastly different even given the same starting point.

Your boat, your choice.

Good luck.

[boating2go]

I have a spreadsheet I developed that I am willing to share. PM me with an email address and I will send it to you.

[Cacique]

Everyone is different, but it sounds like you'd be fine with the day to day, it's down to how much you need to spend on the boat to get it ready.
I wish you the best of luck and would say "Do it, Do it now"

[Greenhand]

We just bought our liveaboard and are working hard to get the big projects done before we move aboard. We have been sailing for a few years, but our little pocket cruiser doesn't even have winches, much less a bilge pump or a diesel engine... We are both very handy and willing to give things a try.

With my husband working overtime, I have a limited learning curve and only so much time available, so I have had to hire out some of the work. I am doing my best to use the experts as my teachers.

-As long as I was hiring a rigger for a shroud issue that came up in survey, I had them do other work up the mast, as well. However, they are happy to let me watch, ask questions and even participate. I know what the process is to drop my headsail off the furler now. And I know that it isn't fun to raise it back up

-The mechanic was a little less helpful. If I asked questions, he would just sit there and stare at me after he answered, as if waiting for the next question. He showed me everything he removed and disconnected, so I feel fairly confident that he isn't taking advantage of my relative ignorance, but I don't think I am going to learn much from him. After he reinstalls the cooling manifold, I probably won't be calling him back.

-The electrician seemed pretty excited about having me tail him and in the initial evaluation was already talking about what he could do versus what he could start and have us finish vs. what he could show us once and let us do the rest. I can't really confirm any of this yet, as I couldn't get him in to do the actual work until the first week of June.

Now, if anyone would like to come over and hold a wrench on the nuts while I remove, and later replace, the bolts on my stanchions, I could get another project done this week.

[mausgras]

I am not a full time liveaboard just yet, but I hope to be in a year or so. My boat is a Bavaria 37 in Phukhet, Thailand but eventually I will take her back to Oz.
I have made a spreadsheet looking at 4 options, here and in Oz, in a marina and at anchor.
Its a simple spreadsheet with the formulas programmed in so you can play with it and change things around.

My discretionary "wants" are generally modest, I don't aspire to an effluent lifestyle but there are some creature comforts I dont want to compromise on.

I would be interested in your thoughts (and other readers if they wish), which items I have left off, which are over or under estimates.

The file can be downloaded from my shared folder on Google drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6g...it?usp=sharing

[BandB]

Originally Posted by mausgras

I am not a full time liveaboard just yet, but I hope to be in a year or so. My boat is a Bavaria 37 in Phukhet, Thailand but eventually I will take her back to Oz.
I have made a spreadsheet looking at 4 options, here and in Oz, in a marina and at anchor.
Its a simple spreadsheet with the formulas programmed in so you can play with it and change things around.

My discretionary "wants" are generally modest, I don't aspire to an effluent lifestyle but there are some creature comforts I dont want to compromise on.

I would be interested in your thoughts (and other readers if they wish), which items I have left off, which are over or under estimates.

The file can be downloaded from my shared folder on Google drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6g...it?usp=sharing

Items of consideration you may or may not have considered but are not on your spreadsheet.

-Electronics. Including any subscriptions for internet or charts, etc. Phone cost looks low but I don't know what area you'd cruise and need it

-Would there be any remaining land costs, such as storage, mail forwarding, flying back home occasionally, lodging if doing so.

-Boat taxes, licenses, etc., if there are any in the areas you're discussing.

-Supplies and equipment. From small items to spare parts, cleaning supplies to PFD's to towels, toilet tissue.

-Pump outs

-The marina costs shocked me but you know that market better than I do

I would say overall you've done a reasonably conservative budget which I like. You might be able to get by with less in some areas but then there are the areas you overspend to balance it out. Also it should allow you to save a little toward major repairs.

[boatman61]

Puzzles me how Humanity managed to survive till recent history without spreadsheets..

[CPseudonym]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Puzzles me how Humanity managed to survive till recent history without spreadsheets..

What puzzles me more is how the OP asks about his boat maintenance budget and gets 20 posts about food and toilet paper projections.

10% of purchase price for annual maintenance is a good rough figure that will get you in the ball park. Good luck with your adventure.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by BandB

Items of consideration you may or may not have considered but are not on your spreadsheet.

-Electronics. Including any subscriptions for internet or charts, etc. Phone cost looks low but I don't know what area you'd cruise and need it

-Would there be any remaining land costs, such as storage, mail forwarding, flying back home occasionally, lodging if doing so.

-Boat taxes, licenses, etc., if there are any in the areas you're discussing.

-Supplies and equipment. From small items to spare parts, cleaning supplies to PFD's to towels, toilet tissue.

-Pump outs

-The marina costs shocked me but you know that market better than I do

I would say overall you've done a reasonably conservative budget which I like. You might be able to get by with less in some areas but then there are the areas you overspend to balance it out. Also it should allow you to save a little toward major repairs.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I hope they have helped the OP. You certainly made some points for me to think about.
I guess the point that jumped out at me when I did the modelling was how little difference marina costs affected the bottom line.
Yes, they are significant, ranging from 800 to 1200 a month in Aust. And in Thailand from 400 to 600. In Thailand they cater very much for the super yacht market. In Australia the standard of amenities, especially environmental controls are onerous and expensive.
I had completely forgotten govt taxes and charges, thanks for that.
I had considered my "boys toys" but I am already pretty well set up there already. The only thing I am currently drooling over are the new generation of multifunction chartplotters. I can feel a Dragonfly coming on.
Hope this is of benefit to others.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CPseudonym

10% of purchase price for annual maintenance is a good rough figure that will get you in the ball park. Good luck with your adventure.

I hear this always, but have to question it.
If I buy a new 500K boat, maintenance will cost me 50K a year?
But if I buy an older boat for 50K, then it's only 5K a year to maintain an old boat, older is cheaper to maintain? Logic says otherwise.

I think the 10% rule makes sense for the average used boat that's say 15 yrs old and has been decently maintained but the further you stray from average, the bigger or smaller the percentage figure will be.

But, he is talking spending 140K on a 40' boat, I assume a monohull. That ought to buy a boat that is in top notch shape, compared to say a 50K boat the same size. He ought to get a boat needing very little maintenance for that price? Plus it doesn't sound like he plans on extensive cruising which ought to help with costs??

On slip fees Vs anchoring out, seems at least in my area if your going to spend more than 4 or 5 days a month in a slip, it may be almost as cheap to rent a slip full time. My slip rents for about $300 a month, transient rates are about a dollar a night per ft. so at about 6 nights per month, I'd hit a full months rent.

For 40K a yr that he is spending on housing costs, I think he ought to be able to get by easily, actually live pretty "high off the hog"

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by mausgras

I can feel a Dragonfly coming on.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I had one in may last boat, a center console that was used mostly for diving and I liked the downscan for finding wrecks to dive on. The Dragonfly was nice, but one thing I was disappointed with was that any vertical boat motion was displayed in the picture too, so an old girder bridge span for example instead of seeing straight lines of the girders, the girders were zig zaged so badly you had no idea what you were looking at. Unless of course the seas were dead flat and there was no pitching or rocking of the boat.
But for finding spots to drop in on and spearfish and dive, it was great.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Kurt_Pollett

..............
Question1:
"What should I budget for per annum on Repairs, Maintenance, Running etc?" (don't worrying about Mooring or Berthing costs, I have them,)
There is a saying that you should budget 10% of purchase price. would that mean for the above that 14,000/Year seems about right? .....

I don't recall where this idea originally came from that estimates annual maintenance costs to be ten percent of the purchase price. I did see that A64pilot found some fault with this concept in his post above.

I've seen people purchase expensive new boats, as the OP proposes, and incur little costs for maintenance for many years beyond a few haul outs and bottom jobs. Iv'e also seen people by inexpensive used boats and pay more than their purchase price each year for maintenance. There's much decretionary maintenance costs too.

It's been said that the 10% of purchase price spent for maintenance will put you "in the ball park". My thought is that there is no "ball park".

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I don't recall where this idea originally came from that estimates annual maintenance costs to be ten percent of the purchase price. I did see that A64pilot found some fault with this concept in his post above.

I've seen people purchase expensive new boats, as the OP proposes, and incur little costs for maintenance for many years beyond a few haul outs and bottom jobs. Iv'e also seen people by inexpensive used boats and pay more than their purchase price each year for maintenance. There's much decretionary maintenance costs too.

It's been said that the 10% of purchase price spent for maintenance will put you "in the ball park". My thought is that there is no "ball park".

There would also be huge annual variation, maybe 5% for a couple of years then 20 or 30 % on a big refit.

It should be easy enough to get an estimate if people have kept records. Just divide total expenditure by number of years will give an average figure. Any offers.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by mausgras

There would also be huge annual variation, maybe 5% for a couple of years then 20 or 30 % on a big refit.

It should be easy enough to get an estimate if people have kept records. Just divide total expenditure by number of years will give an average figure. Any offers?

This has been discussed many times on CF. I guess there's never a bad time to re-invent the wheel.