The Bum(fuzzle)s Are Moving Afloat Again !

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by atoll

well actually the contadiction is i actually need wannabees,thats how i make my living....from people who really shouldn't be out there........

ahhh...truth be told!

[atoll]

see previous,i'll have your boat off the rocks,before you can say "where's my dingy".....

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by sneuman

In atoll's defense, what Smackdaddy describes here is absolutely the case in many LDCs. I have lived in and visited my share. Not saying this describes the 'Bums, but it doesn't improve the locals' lives any in the long run for foreigners to become walking ATMs. All it does is debase the real local economy and when the tourists "move on" (when they become disgusted with being taken advantage of), then everybody loses.

********. Or don't people generally want to make the best lifestyle they can?

You lived in Hong Kong and there is a boating industry here that relies completely upon skilled Philipino, Sri Lanken and local Chinese boat professionals. And Westerners as well.

To suggest that tourists may be fickle, ergo don't even try, is bizarre.

[tropicalescape]

An ugly American is one that shows up where people are poor and they wear gold chains and jewlery and lots of makeup and when they eat they eat the best part and throw the rest away..then they say well this is the way we do it in America and then they insult a man living in a tin shack by telling him he has a nice home and looking for a Mcdonalds in a far away land is just plan silly...cultural insensativity makes everybody an ugly somebody...DVC

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by sneuman

In atoll's defense, what Smackdaddy describes here is absolutely the case in many LDCs. I have lived in and visited my share. Not saying this describes the 'Bums, but it doesn't improve the locals' lives any in the long run for foreigners to become walking ATMs. All it does is debase the real local economy and when the tourists "move on" (when they become disgusted with being taken advantage of), then everybody loses.

I'd say that view is simplistic. Commerce absolutely does help any "real local economy" - without question. Yes, it has sociological downsides just like everywhere else in the world. But there's typically way more upside.

Foreign ATM? No. But if you're touristing and you make a serious effort to really spend your money on local businesses in the places you visit - there's a huge impact.

And just like any "First World Entrepreneur" on this forum, if a transient customer is perfectly willing to pay more than local rates for a product or service, a "Third World Entrepreneur" is going to be pretty happy about that. Yet, unlike this phenomenon in First World tourist destinations, the customer doing business with this "Third World Entrepreneur" is typically still getting an outrageously good deal.

Have any of you guys seen Sequitur's blog?

Sequitur

[SV.Maverick]

Well back to topic i'm glad they are afloat again and I like their blog also. Now while there are better blogs I enjoy almost every one I come across. Live and let live!

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by atoll

see previous,i'll have your boat off the rocks,before you can say "where's my dingy".....

How much do you charge?

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by muskoka

********. Or don't people generally want to make the best lifestyle they can?

You lived in Hong Kong and there is a boating industry here that relies completely upon skilled Philipino, Sri Lanken and local Chinese boat professionals. And Westerners as well.

To suggest that tourists may be fickle, ergo don't even try, is bizarre.

I also lived in India and Thailand, spent some or much time in Pakistan and the Philippines, Bangladesh and yes, Sri Lanka.

Of course people want to make the best livlihood they can, but it does no good to distort the economic realities by becoming a cash machine. That perverts the local economy and when you and everyone else stops coming because it's too expensive or over-exploited, then the "bubble" bursts.

If you leave a $10 tip on a $10 meal, the next foreigner is expected to do the same.

In the meantime, locals themselves are priced out of their own market by a economic structure that revolves around the foreign tourist.

[engele]

Originally Posted by atoll

well actually the contradiction (sp) is i actually need wannabees,thats how i make my living....from people who really shouldn't be out there........

Wow! That is respectful, and totally unjudgmental. I am sure you make lots of friends with that attitude. Not that you would care, they are just wannabees anyway.

So after a complete circumnav if you are not a real sailor, I am curious as to what makes you a real sailor and not a wannabee? It would seem that there really aren't that many of them if the bar is higher than that. In fact, all of us should stop posting/sailing if we haven't met Atolls graduation standard.

I am sure you are a great guy, but this thread isn't your best work. You seem bitter and judgmental without a good reason. Why not just help people out and be positive. If you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything at all...

[atoll]

Originally Posted by sneuman

I also lived in India and Thailand, spent some or much time in Pakistan and the Philippines, Bangladesh and yes, Sri Lanka.

Of course people want to make the best livlihood they can, but it does no good to distort the economic realities by becoming a cash machine. That perverts the local economy and when you and everyone else stops coming because it's too expensive or over-exploited, then the "bubble" bursts.

said like a true traveler rater than some one who has a wharped "travel channel" perspective..............

[Nateman]

Originally Posted by sneuman

I also lived in India and Thailand, spent some or much time in Pakistan and the Philippines, Bangladesh and yes, Sri Lanka.

Of course people want to make the best livlihood they can, but it does no good to distort the economic realities by becoming a cash machine. That perverts the local economy and when you and everyone else stops coming because it's too expensive or over-exploited, then the "bubble" bursts.

If you leave a $10 tip on a $10 meal, the next foreigner is expected to do the same.

In the meantime, locals themselves are priced out of their own market by a economic structure that revolves around the foreign tourist.

I think atoll is right on, if it were "free" again to cruise then no one would be hurt because false economies would never form! Win Win!!!

The locals in the Bahamas pay separate prices at restaurants and such, we've seen the menus!

[Celestialsailor]

Over the years traveling to South East Asia, tipping was introduced. At first, they didn't know why someone would want to give them more money than they asked for. Now they are insulted if you don't tip...so sorry..we do influence a 3rd world economy in a negative way. It's not a clear black or white situation. The best we can do when we visit another culture is be as respectful as we can and minimize our effect of the people and their environment.

[engele]

In any case, I guess I am one of the people who enjoy their blog, admire them for saving (no one knows what their finances look like and the checkbook comments are BS), and wish them only the best.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

How much do you charge?

how much ya got........?

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by sneuman

I also lived in India and Thailand, spent some or much time in Pakistan and the Philippines, Bangladesh and yes, Sri Lanka.

Of course people want to make the best livlihood they can, but it does no good to distort the economic realities by becoming a cash machine. That perverts the local economy and when you and everyone else stops coming because it's too expensive or over-exploited, then the "bubble" bursts.

In the meantime, locals themselves are priced out of their own market by a price structure that revolves around the foreign tourist.

Not one of us can control the hand of fate. But every one of us has absolute control of how we deal with other people. And in that context, I look at anyone I'm dealing with as a guy trying to make the best living he can. It isn't up to me to be a closet economist and figure out whats good for the local economy. I'm just another fellow buying a service or a thing.

The whole implication of a lot of this discussion is patronizing. There's an overriding mindset that we shouldn't ruin it for the 'natives'. And the galling thing is that it's a bunch of Westerners. I'm a westerner but I don't presume to know what the locals want.

PS And I've lived out here for a couple of decades. And I'm still an outsider...