taking the boat from the great lakes

[irwinsailor]

Gord you are a true wealth of information! How do you all this stuff?

[GordMay]

What routing does Cornell recommend (N.S. to S. Fl) ?
Gord

I can do this stuff because I HAVE done much of it (or similar stuff) - and unfortunately, my cruising appears to now be mostly "past history", and my only future may be vicariously through the exploits of others (like you).

[irwinsailor]

I'm not sure if iI should say this but here goes. Yesterday I talked to a guy at the Chicago boat show that bought his boat in Maine. He thought about bringing his boat through the St. Lawarance homw to Chicago and decided to take the Erie canal instead. He told me that is much shorter. I am now thinking that it may be worth the work taking down the rig. I have not made up my mind and going out the seaway may happen but I am not as sure as I was.

[Jentine]

While you are waiting for the spring thaw, I strongly suggest that you take some navigation courses and perhaps an offshore sailing course. It is the unprepared sailor that keeps the Coast Guard in the rescue business.
I don't think that you have any idea of what is required to sail offshore. You need sufficient crew to man the boat 24 hours a day. This alone suggests that a minimum of four or more is necessary. Each watch needs an experienced member to navigate and sail the vessel in a myriad of weather conditions. There are tomes written that do not contain all the combinations of conditions that can occur in a trip of this magnitude.
My best recommendation is that you stay close to shore until you have developed some seawise skills. This would keep you within sight of land, though distant from Nova Scotia to Florida. There are some protected zones through which you could sail once you clear Maine. You could go through the Cape Cod Canal, follow the coast, through Long Island Sound past New York City and back out into open water for a trip down the New Jersy Coast. From there to Florida, you are pretty much on the outside.

Jim Kane

[irwinsailor]

Jim, wouls a 8' draft and 74' mast be a problem in the cape cod canal?

[GordMay]

You should have NO problem with clearance nor draft in the Cape Cod Canal.

The Erie Canal - Hudson River would be easier & faster - even after lowering & re-raising the mast.

Cape Cod Canal (CCC):
(from East End/Sandwich, Cape Cod Bay - to Buzzard’s Bay exit)
Use of Cape Cod Canal saves mariners an average of 135 miles of (somewhat dangerous) coastwise travel while circumnavigating Cape Cod. The Canal is roughly 17.4 miles long, and connects Cape Cod Bay in the north to Buzzards Bay in the south.
The Cape Cod Canal is the world's widest sea-level canal at 480 feet wide and has authorized depth of 32 feet at mean low water. The swift running Canal current changes direction every six hours, and can reach a maximum velocity of 5.2 miles per hour, during the ebb (westerly) tide*. The three bridges that span the Canal were designed to allow for 135 feet of vertical clearance above mean high tide.

* CCC Tide/Current Tables: http://www.maineharbors.com/currents/curcanal.htm

When transiting the CCC in a low-powered sailboat, you may need to do the passage WITH the current (4.5 knots max.). When traveling from east to west, the current being with you it is flowing to the west. Buzzards Bay on a typical summer afternoon is blowing 15 - 25 knots from the southwest. Because this wind is nearly directly opposing the current, it will set up 3-5 ft standing swells in the canal exit (approximately 1 mile + of abuse). Combine this with multiple fishing boats playing the rips and a busy commercial channel, you will have quite an “interesting” passage. At times your knot meter may be registering ‘0' knots, and the only reason you are making way is the following current. This will give ‘0' steerage - so have fun! For the not so brave at heart, you can bail out at Onset (to starboard,when heading west) at the daymarker just past the Mass Maritime Academy, and do the final passage in the AM when the winds are typically less.

See the USCG ‘CCC’ webpages: http://www.nae.usace.army.mil/recreati/ccc/ccchome.htm
includiung:
USCG Safety Guide
USCG Navigation Guide

[GordMay]

ERIE CANAL - Hudson River Route:
2 days to de-mast + 6 days Buffalo to Albany (Erie Canal) + 2 days to re-rig mast + 3 days on Hudson River = 2 weeks Bufalo to NY City (13 days).
Erie Canal carries minimum 12' depths.

Going to the effort of lowering & raising the mast, could pay the dividend of offering about a MONTH of alloted travel time Southward from New York City.

[Jon D]

If you are rethinking the canal option and if you have the room on board I would look at premaking some mast stands[to support the rig as you motor through the canal] for the boat.

The places where you pull the rig used to have lots of lumber lying around and you can make to mast stands on the fly. Given the size of your boat I would look at buying the lumber and making them before you leave. Then break them down and all you have to do is reassemble when you get to Buffalo.

When you put the masts back up you can leave the wood behind.

Also just a thought -- now that you have taken the rig down once it should be easier the second time. You understand the rig and wireing.

Best of luck

[irwinsailor]

It is true that now that I have had the rig down it should be easyer to put back up. I covered everything with anhydrious lanolin so everything should come apart better.
Gord, I am not sure if I would dare to go through the canal now the I read your post!

[Jon D]

If the canal your worried about is the cape cod it's all about catch the tide.

Coming from the great lakes it's not something you're used to thinking about but no big deal really.

The key is to have an Reeds Almanac or equivelent and time your passage to hit the canal at or just before slack water with the tide turning your way. Then you get a really nice downhill run.

Same thing applies at a number of places - Hell's gate on the east river, C&D canal etc. The tide and current can be your freind once you begin to use them. Nothing like making 10 knots over ground when you're motoring at 6 or so.

[irwinsailor]

The thought of having a 74' mast on deck does not apeal to me. It may be the best way to go. Building a cradle for the masts will need to be done carefully because in the weight. If they drop it could kill someone.

[Jon D]

When we did it it was on a 36 with a mast that was about 60ft long. Even if that fell it would be very dangerous. That was why I suggested that you build when you have time to engineer and test them. Basically some 2x4s sistered and 'X'd provide a tremendous amount of strength. The key is having a setup front mid and rear that will not move underway. If you think about it the total weight of your mast is not much over 200 lbs if that. The realy problem is the lengthand manuevering it. If your not comfortable doing the design I'm sure the guys at your yard could help. You will want the mast as low as possible to the cabin top which makes it easier to build to. The folks at either end of the canals do this all the time with boats in your size range. Check the canal system web site or the cruising guides --they'll probably be able to give you some other ideas.

[irwinsailor]

did you have your mast down the center of the boat? The way that I see it on ours I would need to have it about 4' or more off the cabin top. Then I have a mizzen and the booms. I'm sure it can me done but it will be a fair amount of work. I would say that our main mast would be close to 1000 lbs. Also did you take all of the shrouds and spreaders off?

[Jon D]

Yes mast was down the center of the boat just high enough so that you could steer. Spreaders, shrouds etc stayed on. You lash those to the mast in such as manner that the mast is not directly laying on them. Only item that you have to be really careful of is the roller furler as you do not want to ding the foil. Also if radar is on the mast make sure dome is clear. We did take off the masthead sending units though. We also made sure everything could not hit the water no matter what.

I would imagine both booms could lie on the side deck. So what you would build is a serier of braces to hold the two masts. Again not sure of your loads or weight but I've seen three guys pick up and move my current mast which is over 60ft and a big section.

[CSY Man]

Don't have much experience up in yer neck of the woods Mr. Irwinsailor, but if it was my boat, I would sail as much on the lakes as possible to learn the boat how to handle her.

Then have the rig tuned good, work the bugs out of the ship and the equipment, etc.

Then hire a competent skipper and a couple of crew men to go the Northern and off-shore route.


Ya learn from the pros, and ya don't have to dissasemble the masts / rig to take the short-cut.

Either way it will cost ya a few $K, but this is fairly serious bussines and it should not be taken lightly.

(My choice would be to get a smaller boat with less generators, water makers and washing machines and just enjoy the islands and the tropics instead of trying to haul the condo around at great expense and many head-aces)

Good luck anyway...