Sailing Around South America

[nemoofsweden]

Originally Posted by CeesH

Criminal country, your live is worth a lot less then the value of your dingies outboard engine

Just to make the picture a bit less dark, we cruised Brazil for 8 months and only meet nice people, nice sailors and nice authorities. Without locking the boat once and with only knowing the few useful words of Portugees (I'm sorry, thanks, wonderful! and "thanks, you are very helpful")

Biking in the Favelas at night, going to some Forró's in the outbacks, walking the odd streets and anchoring in a few places that might be seen upon as "dangerous"

Maybe only good luck? Or maybe just a positive approach? Don't skip Brazil!

[nemoofsweden]

[QUOTE=estarzinger;1098567]

Originally Posted by nemoofsweden

How are the officials in puerto williams and ushuaia this season? Any major administrative difficulties? And whats going on with docking/anchoring in Ushuaia (club afysin being good or difficult)?

Hi Beth/Evans

I haven't so much to compare with but the news during this year (Nemo came here in early January) is that Club Nautico AFASyN raised the price per sq with about 25 % which makes it a bit more expensive. The good choice now is the Club Nautico across the little bay, closer to the town but with more traffic noise and no shower. Some long-term private cruising boats moved over there.

Here in Williams life goes on. The charter-boats are up running for the season, the weather have been nice. The administration is straight forward as usually, no fuss. Only have your papers in order with all different numbers. Maybe I do it too easy for myself but I have printed photos of all stuff onboard which usually impress the "paper-guys", so serial number on second VHF???? 876543, there you go

Everyone is helpful with a smile! Applying for a permit to go back to Argentina after visiting Malvinas/Falklands from Ushuaia might also work out without too much fuss. And not seams like the nightmare one might hear. There if a "fine" for not following the rules of course.

Argentina apparently put a stop for a lot of import goods which makes it much harder to make larger upgrades over there. I'm checking the situation because I might need to repower. The easier way might be going via Falklands.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

The latest data reveal that Antarctica is losing ice pretty quickly. If he waits a while he might not need a steel boat.

I realise this was tongue-in-cheek, and perhaps you meant specifically the Peninsula, but others might take the above statement literally. They would mislead themselves, because it is contrary to observed fact.

While the Peninsula is losing ice, (being the warmest part of Antarctica, and having warmed faster than anywhere else on earth) much of Antarctica is presently gaining ice.

Paradoxically, it seems this is also due to warming.

For one thing, the temperatures elsewhere than the Peninsula are still way below zero, hence melting (in the air, and at atmospheric pressure) cannot happen. At least, not yet.
The temperatures are still so much below freezing that warming in these areas allows snowfall further south, where the precipitation rates were previously below desert levels. It was too dry to snow more than a few mm per year.
It's like situating a deep freeze inside a walk-in chiller: you will not need to defrost the deep freeze as you would if it were located out in the main kitchen.

Furthermore the increased temperature differential between the continent and the surrounding sea means the katabatic wind, which blows northwards off the land all around the continent, blows more strongly.

This pushes sea ice off the 'factory floor' of the polynyas close to shore.
As these areas are cleared of ice, the (still very cold) wind can immediately freeze the freshly exposed water surface into ice, which in turn is pushed north. The throughput of sea ice is consequently increased, and will be for some time, due to warming temperatures.

The Arctic does not have a continent, hence no katabatics. The Arctic is not isolated by water from all land masses, unlike the Antarctic which is insulated (by the unbroken belt of westerlies around the Southern Ocean) from warm tropical airmasses.

This is how the Antarctic (except for the Peninsula, which is almost connected to Sth America) comes to be SO much colder than the rest of the planet.

That's my understanding of why this mechanism does not apply in the North, and why ice loss is already so evident in the Arctic summer, where the temperature routinely gets above freezing.


It occurs to me that if the global climate is likened to a cheque account, Antarctica is in some ways like a massive deposit. (of coldness)

If the person operating the account doesn't know about this huge reserve, and doesn't track income vs expenses, they will happily live well beyond their means without getting any warnings from the bank. Until one day the hidden deposit is all spent.


Seems to me we need to be more vigilant about 'hidden expenditure' of this stash of coldness.

It bothers me, for instance, that cold north-flowing currents appear to be increasing in volume, presumably due to meltwater. It is certainly the case that there have been massive increases of fresh meltwater originating from the Antarctic glaciers, and their rate of delivery of ice into the oceans has increased faster than scientists predicted, but there's enough glacier ice for this to continue indefinitely.

Indefinitely, admittedly, only in terms of the lifespan of those who are already born....

[CeesH]

Originally Posted by nemoofsweden

Just to make the picture a bit less dark, we cruised Brazil for 8 months and only meet nice people, nice sailors and nice authorities. Without locking the boat once and with only knowing the few useful words of Portugees (I'm sorry, thanks, wonderful! and "thanks, you are very helpful")

Biking in the Favelas at night, going to some Forró's in the outbacks, walking the odd streets and anchoring in a few places that might be seen upon as "dangerous"

Maybe only good luck? Or maybe just a positive approach? Don't skip Brazil!

@nemoofsweden, Sorry but in my view you are naive.

Go to your Favela's (my Brazil wife don't go there) and be happy, I know an other reality.........

In January i lost my mother in law, killed by 3 15 years old, they broke alsmost all her bones for a lousy $300,00....

In January on gun point I lost my Passport, Mobile telephone Credit Cards (easy to check, call the Dutch Ambassy).

February, on Gun point in the city centre of São Luis my wife has to give her Mobile and all her Cash Money.

March my cousin is robbet again at Gun Point in the local bus from hit Ipad. .....................

Last news, Saturday my niece house has been completle emptied, 2 Laptops, documents, DVD player, Mobile telephones.........

Nice country........ Stay away..........

[Lagoon4us]

Andrew where do these cold flows bend/cease or dissipate? Do they stay in the Southern Hemisphere?
It bothers me, for instance, that cold north-flowing currents appear to be increasing in volume, presumably due to meltwater. It is certainly the case that there have been massive increases of fresh meltwater originating from the Antarctic glaciers, and their rate of delivery of ice into the oceans has increased faster than scientists predicted, but there's enough glacier ice for this to continue indefinitely.


Cheers

[nemoofsweden]

Originally Posted by CeesH

@nemoofsweden, Sorry but in my view you are naive.

I'm sorry to hear that you have so many sad experiences. I try NOT to be naive, I'm fully aware that Brazil is a large country with large differences when it comes to "poor" and "rich". That usually means problem with drugs, crime and so on. Nevertheless MOST people is normal hard working and nice people and with the COMMON SENCE very few countries should be "avoided".

When walking around with electronic gadgets, nicely dressed maybe and worst of all a bit drunk going home from a restaurant after midnight. Well, then one are an easy target in any corner of the world, especially in the mega-cities.

That can be avoided of course. Dress down, bring nothing and walk where all other people walks, use taxis and get advice from locals. Marinas are usually pretty safe, often guarded or with other sailors to keep an look-out.

Avoiding a country like Brazil when "Sailing around South America" as the name of the thread says is to me as smart as staying home from the start. A lot of people sailing around the globe. Some have problems, some not. Everyone gets more good stories to tell compare with the armchair traveller.

[nemoofsweden]

Not to prove a point, but here is a google translate of an article just a few weeks ago about some young Swedish guys from my hometown Gothenburg who sat out for a Caribbean cruise. First the got dismasted and then SHOT in a wealthy little village in... Belgium!

Article about Chamsin Sailing in a Swedish newspaper google translated

I wouldn't avoid Belgium on a cruise either. Maybe for the marina fees then...

[CeesH]

People can talk, talk................

BRAZIL IS AN NOT TO GO COUNTRY................

CeesH

[MarkJ]

Actually Brazil is a terrific country and an excellent cruising destination.
The bit that amazed me most was Salvador de Bahia.... Music moves in those people. Quite fantastic.

I will definitely be back there in 2016 for the Olympics.

Rio is terrific. Those famous beaches are really populated just as the photos show... With lots of pretty girls!
The pollution gets to be a problem but hopefully it will be sorted out before the Olympics.

That's gunna be a great party.

[nemoofsweden]

Even though it is perfectly possible to sail around South America without stepping on to the continent I think the idea here was to explore some of the beauty of it. Countries like Colombia and Venezuela might not be the safest either but is part of the cake if going around. If not the icing of the cake. So, it dangerous to live; you are almost sure to die in the end...

[CeesH]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Actually Brazil is a terrific country and an excellent cruising destination.
The bit that amazed me most was Salvador de Bahia.... Music moves in those people. Quite fantastic.

I will definitely be back there in 2016 for the Olympics.

Rio is terrific. Those famous beaches are really populated just as the photos show... With lots of pretty girls!
The pollution gets to be a problem but hopefully it will be sorted out before the Olympics.

That's gunna be a great party.

If you like to get killed in BRAZIL, be my guest........

CeesH

[sv.la.amante]

Originally Posted by CeesH

@nemoofsweden, Sorry but in my view you are naive.

Go to your Favela's (my Brazil wife don't go there) and be happy, I know an other reality.........

In January i lost my mother in law, killed by 3 15 years old, they broke alsmost all her bones for a lousy $300,00....

In January on gun point I lost my Passport, Mobile telephone Credit Cards (easy to check, call the Dutch Ambassy).

February, on Gun point in the city centre of São Luis my wife has to give her Mobile and all her Cash Money.

March my cousin is robbet again at Gun Point in the local bus from hit Ipad. .....................

Last news, Saturday my niece house has been completle emptied, 2 Laptops, documents, DVD player, Mobile telephones.........

Nice country........ Stay away..........

I been in Brazil many times, I am original from Peru so going to Brazil was very easy when I was living over there and there is alot of nice people ovin Brazil but like anywhere in this planet you have to know where are you going, there are places in the good USA that I wont get out of my car or drive thru, but I have to agreed in one thing the so call favelas are not save, and guys dont forget a smart phone that cost $400.00 or more is the salary of one month or more in some contries so comon sence is important

[milagroman]

Originally Posted by dpons

I'm myself a coastal sailor, but from the experiences of friends:

- Going clockwise from the Caribbean to the south has two routes: one bordering the coast until Recife, against wind and current. The other going via Azores, Cabo Verde and then crossing to Fdo. de Noronha/Recife. None is trivial. The short one is hard on boats and requires heavy motoring. The other one involves prolonged legs far from help.

- From Recife to Tierra del Fuego the winds are ok, with the ocassional fiery SW (Pampero) towards the south. There are two types of Pampero. The bad ones are the ones between a high pressure center NW of a deep low pressure center. There are a couple of areas without good harbors in between (Rio-La Paloma, Mar del Plata-Ushuaia).

- Current favors CW route in the Pacific from Patagonia until the equator.

I am in the planning stages of this trip from colombia to Ecuador the long way around south america clockwise. one of the more diffucult legs will be from colombia to trinidad and probably to recife using the coastal route. any season better than others for this passage? I have read that during may/june between the dry and wet season the sea state is less crazy. any feedback greatly appreciated.

[Adelie]

milagroman:

This thread has been moribund for just over 7yr.
dpons, who you responded to, hasn't logged in since last October and hasn't posted any thing since 2015. This info is publicly visible in their profile. That said, maybe he/she will respond since they were directly addressed.

Consider starting your own thread on this topic.
Check out Jimmy Cornell's "World Cruising Routes" which has a lot of info on this topic.

Given that you think this leg will be especially difficult I am inclined to believe that you may be in a little over your head. Patagonia, Tierra del Fuego and the big chunks of the Chilean coast will be significantly worse.
Good luck with your research.

[milagroman]

hahaha, thanks for catching that date, adelie! in my search on threads, I swore I thought this was one of the more recent ones. as for a bit over my head, probably so, but I think it's a good thing, every new passage is, and should be a new learning experience. with proper preparation and respect for the elements, it should be a positive one. but is also why the boat is named Milagro...its been one for me on this cruising journey. thanks again and fair winds to you!