couple in 20's 2 year circumnavigation...We need advise

[darylat8750]

I also think buying a boat for guests is a mistake. We have had our current bot just under 5 years. I have come from a large family, have a couple of grown children with children and several good friends who like boating. Also we have been cruising the Western Carribean and the Gulf Coast, East Cost and Great Lakes of the U.S. so easier to meet up with us than if we were in Timbuktu. Also we are retired and some of our friends are retired. BUT people are busy with their own lives! Jobs, children, grand children. Our guest cabin has been used less than 40 days in all that time. Unless you can spend a lot more than your current budget all off shore boats will feel cramped. If they don't they spaces will be so big that you will get all bruised or broken when trying to move around off shore.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by natraps116

Svbebe

Thanks for the link we are checking out a lot of people's blogs to try to pick everyone brain so we can focus on the good ports and avoid the ones where the consensus is not good.

I'm a big believer in learning from others. With my business, I lived by the model if I didn't know how to do something don't guess, hire an expert who does,(then learn from them)

About the beneteau, which layout did you have. We really like the beneteau 473 because the two stateroom one storage room layout. We are big bicyclers and campers/hikers and will be bring our bikes with us to explore inland where we go so the storage room accessed from the inside is a must.
You felt you out grew the 461? It's good to hear because we defiantly don't want to feel cramped in our future home for three+ years.

Thanks so much for the link to your blog!

I think Svbebe maybe the only person to tell you to go bigger than the boat you are looking at. 47' is already very large for a couple with your experience level and it will need to be one designed for a cruising couple. Amel is one that would fit your price range, but again, why go that size?

[natraps116]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

If you want to actually SEE the world in two years.... FLY. You'll be spending a lot of time at sea, and when you finally arrive somewhere, you won't have time to actually experience anything the country has to offer besides the beach/harbor/town you're at.

You're younger than us (My wife and I are both 31), but we started cruising for the same reasons...we wanted to see the world before we had children. We have a lot more time than your self imposed two years, but once we left the US, we quickly realized we could either collect a ton of stamps in our passport or we could actually experience each area we are in. We slowed way down and have enjoyed it ten times more.

On that note, this past hurricane season (6 months long) we parked our boat in Guatemala and went backpacking in South America. I saw way more of each area we traveled with a pack on my back than I have with our boat. Unless you have unlimited time/money, I've found most cruisers fall into the rut of sticking close to the comforts of their boat. Your boat is your home...Why go into the interior of a country and stay in a hotel? You have now just limited yourself to the coastal areas of each country.

I absolutely LOVE what the cruising lifestyle has done to my typically high stressed and fast paced personality (it's very calming), and I think we may continue to do this indefinitely. But as a way to quickly see the world, I have to say a backpack or RV is a much better choice. You're young and now is the time to travel hard and dirty if your goal is as stated in your OP.

Last but not least...leave the dog at home especially if you're going to circumnavigate in two years. 8 months of that time will be at sea, and it is not right to make a dog do that.

Matt

Thanks a lot for the advise funjohnson,

My wife and I a big outdoor enthusiast and it's good to hear from another young couple who has ventured away from the ports. We plan on doing a lot of exploring and hiking/camping in remote areas. It's something we really enjoy with our dog and friends. And as for the dog, your right it wouldn't be right to spend so much time on the boat with the animal rushing around. We are defiantly going to spend as much time ashore as we need. Thankfully our bear(the dogs name) loves relaxing and is not high strung. We will probably just end up exploring the Caribbean at this rate!!

Thanks again,

[natraps116]

Our dog hiking with us

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by natraps116

About the beneteau, which layout did you have. We really like the beneteau 473 because the two stateroom one storage room layout. You felt you out grew the 461? It's good to hear because we defiantly don't want to feel cramped in our future home for three+ years.

We had planned to cruise the Caribbean in the Beneteau 46 (Charter boat layout 3/3 a.k.a. 463), but by the time we added all of the things that cruising boats have for a circumnavigation we had an expensive boat that was still a light weight Beneteau. We happened upon a 1.5 year old Amel Super Maramu that we could barely afford that allowed us to go further than just the Caribbean...turned out it was the best thing we did. We got caught in an unpredicted cyclone in the Bay of Bengal with about 12 other boats moving from Thailand to India. We were OK, but a Beneteau, about 25 miles to windward, declared a MAYDAY because they were taking on water and could not stop it. They abandoned ship and a freighter picked them up. This is not to say that all Beneteaus will have problems in heavy seas, but frankly they are not really designed for heavy seas and safety...they are designed for sailing fun and fast...they do that well, especially for the price.

The 473 is an entirely different boat than the 46...different hull, different everything. When the 473 is loaded for cruising the back of the transom will be about 3-4" under water...bad design, big problems.

Again, you should look at used boats that have sailed oceans on a regular basis. Two great examples are:
Hallberg-Rassy 48' which is probably the best Hallberg-Rassy ever built.
Amel Super Maramu 53' which is probably the best Amel ever built

The HR is probably going to be too expensive for you, but you may be able to find a Super Maramu that will fit your budget because they were first built in the 80's while the HR 46 was first built in about 2003.

Then there are also boats like this one: Mason 48 Ketch for sale Turkey
I know this boat...it is a great, safe cruising boat. I know the British couple who have owned her for many years. Guitar is docked near us in Turkey. Turkey may be a great place to start your circumnavigation...crossing the Med then Atlantic to the Caribbean first, just to make sure that this is what you want to do...if not, sell her in the Caribbean or the east coast of the US.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Bill

[carstenb]

First - good decision to drop the west/east route and go east/west.
Second - yes you will big problems in the middle east with an Israel stamp in your passport
Third - You say you don't want to hear advice about the Gulf of Aden - only a fool would sail through there
Fourth - Long term cruising is not a dogs life. I know, we took our dog everywhere. She adjusted to it, but wasn't happy. Passage-making with a dog (3-4 weeks) is not easy, for the dog. If you lose him overboard - you'll never forgive yourself.
Fifth - yes, buy the boat that suits you. If you have guests, it's their problem
Sixth - forget the bikes - they are more trouble than they are worth
Seventh - REally good advice is to buy Beth Leonard's Voyagers Handbook. If she doesn't discuss it her book - you don't need to know it.

If the above came out sounding negative - I'm sorry. They are not negative comments. Considering your original post, I'd say you need to do quite a bit more research before you are ready to plan your trip.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by natraps116

Thanks bregts,

I would take sailing stress any day as opposed to a half million $ project construction deadline with pre Modonna clients in willing to budge on trivial details.

I gladly look forward to breakdowns!!!

In the end I'm still sailing and not listening to clients rant.... Woot!

look a lof of us out here had stressful jobs and budgets ect to meet - one guy i know was a ceo of a top 10 world company - as for me i ran private trucking companies and stress is when you get a call at O dark 30 to tell you one of your drivers just had an accident and was killed -

there is stress out here - working into new ports with a small gale blowing and waves building - or big boats surrounding you in shipping lanes as you are crossing them and you hope they see you at 0200 - or seeing on the radar the thunder storm that just came off the coast and is about to over take you at 0300 and you get a lightening strike that hits the water 100 yards behind you and all your insturments suddenly go black and the autopilot goes off and the boat turns into the wind before you and can say cats meow and you got to get the boat back under control in pitch darkness and the admiral has to get all the circuit breakers back up and the electronics back on or at least some lights so you can see the compass -

i am an exmountaineer - climbed the volcanos in mexico, done rainer on a 2 man climb, was a member of mountain search and rescue, taught high angle rock rescue - there are a few places to hike but it is limited - the rest of the world is not hiking the blue ridge or even the rockies - most who do it go far inland and in the carib it is really limited - you really do not want to wander to far inland anyplace in the western carib -

maybe instead of doing a circum nav why not the carib -- you can easily spend 2-4 years exploring the carib and the sailing is good the countries are incredible for the most part, people can come and go easily, water is warm, provisioning is good, and then if you want to expand your horizons do it -- and your dog will thank you -

oh one of our greatest joys is on windy stormy days sitting in an anchorage watching the guys with dogs take them ashore for duty call and then back as we sit in a warm saloon drinking and chuckle

just a thought

[pathlesschosen]

Israel doesn't stamp your passport. They issue a paper with photo. Current as of a few months ago.

[nhschneider]

Prior to leaving San Diego for our circumnavigation, I estimated that it would take us four years. We have been gone three years now and are still 3,000 miles from our halfway point. While we have no regrets, there are many places we would have liked to stay longer.

As far as boat size is concerned, we rarely have guests but find our 48' ketch is just about right for the two of us. Of course, we know people having the time of their lives in 30' boats but we prefer the longer waterline and displacement of a larger boat.

None of the immigration officials in either Indonesia or Mayalsia thumbed through our passports to see what other countries had previously stamped them. In fact, our daughter did have a stamp from Israel in her passport and no one said anything but I don't believe they looked.

The OP said they want to do a lot of exploring but they should also be prepared to do a lot of maintenance. If the overall itinerary is short in duration, they might spend more time exploring the leak in the bilge then they would the countryside.

Good luck, fair winds and calm seas.

[David_Old_Jersey]

It's good to have a plan .

Is it doable? yes.

Is it doable by you? probably.

But IMO the big question is - will it be enjoyable enough to bother spending the time, effort and cash?.........and on that I am not so sure. If your burning ambition is to sail RTW then likely yes, but if it is simply to go RTW and see / experience large chunks of it then IMO their are better (less aggro / hardwork, cheaper and more fun!) ways to do it than with own boat!

The secret is the Jumbo Jet! That does not mean you miss out on sailing around (parts) of the world altogether, plenty of scope to both Charter and sail on OPB (other people's boats!).......and that could be anything from a day sail to a transat (and / or other long passages). Being willing to put hand in own pocket for "expenses" would give you pretty much the pick of the litter. In your shoes I would get some training in - even up to getting an RYA yachtmaster qualifcation via a zero to hero fast track"residential" course - that as much about getting a chunk of seatime in a short period of time as for the qualifications. For some being cold, wet and scared not as fun as it sounds - IMO better to find out how you cope before investing the farm........after that should be no great problem getting onboard a delivery vessel, even as only 3rd or 4th hand (a useful extra pair of eyes and hands - but not essential for the voyage).

Want your own "home" on the go? Buy a campervan in Europe and spend 6 months wandering around - turn up at the docks with transport and (with a bit of internet warm up on introductions) likely you will have lots of new freinds who are very willing to swap some inland transport for some sailing.

[natraps116]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

It's good to have a plan .



Is it doable? yes.



Is it doable by you? probably.



But IMO the big question is - will it be enjoyable enough to bother spending the time, effort and cash?.........and on that I am not so sure. If your burning ambition is to sail RTW then likely yes, but if it is simply to go RTW and see / experience large chunks of it then IMO their are better (less aggro / hardwork, cheaper and more fun!) ways to do it than with own boat!



The secret is the Jumbo Jet! That does not mean you miss out on sailing around (parts) of the world altogether, plenty of scope to both Charter and sail on OPB (other people's boats!).......and that could be anything from a day sail to a transat (and / or other long passages). Being willing to put hand in own pocket for "expenses" would give you pretty much the pick of the litter. In your shoes I would get some training in - even up to getting an RYA yachtmaster qualifcation via a zero to hero fast track"residential" course - that as much about getting a chunk of seatime in a short period of time as for the qualifications. For some being cold, wet and scared not as fun as it sounds - IMO better to find out how you cope before investing the farm........after that should be no great problem getting onboard a delivery vessel, even as only 3rd or 4th hand (a useful extra pair of eyes and hands - but not essential for the voyage).



Want your own "home" on the go? Buy a campervan in Europe and spend 6 months wandering around - turn up at the docks with transport and (with a bit of internet warm up on introductions) likely you will have lots of new freinds who are very willing to swap some inland transport for some sailing.

Good post Dave,

I appriciate your advise and outside the box thinking.
I like the idea of being crew on a delivery hadn't really thought of that.

Thanks alot

[natraps116]

Originally Posted by chuckr

look a lof of us out here had stressful jobs and budgets ect to meet - one guy i know was a ceo of a top 10 world company - as for me i ran private trucking companies and stress is when you get a call at O dark 30 to tell you one of your drivers just had an accident and was killed -

there is stress out here - working into new ports with a small gale blowing and waves building - or big boats surrounding you in shipping lanes as you are crossing them and you hope they see you at 0200 - or seeing on the radar the thunder storm that just came off the coast and is about to over take you at 0300 and you get a lightening strike that hits the water 100 yards behind you and all your insturments suddenly go black and the autopilot goes off and the boat turns into the wind before you and can say cats meow and you got to get the boat back under control in pitch darkness and the admiral has to get all the circuit breakers back up and the electronics back on or at least some lights so you can see the compass -

i am an exmountaineer - climbed the volcanos in mexico, done rainer on a 2 man climb, was a member of mountain search and rescue, taught high angle rock rescue - there are a few places to hike but it is limited - the rest of the world is not hiking the blue ridge or even the rockies - most who do it go far inland and in the carib it is really limited - you really do not want to wander to far inland anyplace in the western carib -

maybe instead of doing a circum nav why not the carib -- you can easily spend 2-4 years exploring the carib and the sailing is good the countries are incredible for the most part, people can come and go easily, water is warm, provisioning is good, and then if you want to expand your horizons do it -- and your dog will thank you -

oh one of our greatest joys is on windy stormy days sitting in an anchorage watching the guys with dogs take them ashore for duty call and then back as we sit in a warm saloon drinking and chuckle

just a thought

Thanks chuckr,

Yeah as I said in an earlier post, knowing myself we will probably end up exploring th carribean a lot longer then we initially plan.

But as far as stress, I understand there is going to be stress at sea and in port.(port probably being more) but as you know, at least it's the kind of stress where you are I control of your destiny type thing..... Not a slave to credit cards or mortgages. I'm a young man but see myself aging much faster then I like. Being 28 with 6 mortgages 2 car payments, multiple work vehicle payments... Payrole to meet.... Tenants with frozen pipes.... It's just exhausting.

My wife and I have sacrificed a lot in the last few years not going on many vacations and being (kinda) frugal. So I feel like the market is in a position where it (might) be time to liquidate and sell.
I don't want to be like people I knew in 2008 sitting on a bunch of assets that have crashed in value. (thinking to themselves, damnit i shoulda sold last year!)I'm kind of an all or nothing type person. My real estate agent says hold onto your properties my parents say hold on to them... Even my wife isn't sure about selling... But I get a feeling that this "economic recovery" isn't really what it's made out to be. (With the fed just printing money like no other point in history)
The western world is a house I cards I feel and even though I have been successful in it I would prefer to be out to sea worrying about the weather or my batteries or my rudder or any million things that go wrong, then be worrying about paying all my overhead when tenants stop paying (cause they we're fired) or my clients not paying (cause the bank dried up funding)or all the other reasons why people don't pay.

Sorry for my rant , I appreciate you sharing your experience. And my wife and I have decided that we are not making any stone plans for the dog until we are about to set sail.... We feel like the answer will present it self whether or not to bring her when the time comes.

[yardie]

As someone in a similar situation (our apartment is on the market) I wish you the best of luck. We were deciding on staying homeowners or going now. And going now has one out. We can always become homeowners again.

I work in the tech sector, it's an in demand industry, so after our little adventure I can always jump back into the shark tank or try something else. Some friends of mine have put the keyboards down and put on a chefs hat. Unlike in the past, you don't have to do the same job for the rest of your life.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by natraps116

Good post Dave,

I appriciate your advise and outside the box thinking.
I like the idea of being crew on a delivery hadn't really thought of that.

Thanks alot

Apart from the delivery crew angle plenty of folks take on extra crew for longer passages. A bit of research will throw up common departure areas and times of the year. Could also aim to get onboard as crew on one of the many "blue water" rallies. Although more active crew wanted and sought websites than here on CF - nonetheless worth a good trawl through to both see what is common and also to avoid the mistakes on presentation!

Of course the big caveat with going OPB is picking the skipper and boat carefully - a long way to swim home / put up with a wannabee Capt Bligh ......plenty of CF threads on that side as well!

If still intending to buy own boat, IMO going OPB for a long passage would be a useful learning tool - both on sailing skills and boats and skippering (including what not to do!)......plus will say whether you both still keen on the idea. Although plenty of scope to be cold, wet and scared - will also find that for some (many!) messing around on boats for extended periods is simply.......boring! and / or annoying (living 2 or more up in a confined space (even 50 foot of boat would be a small space ashore) drives some folks insane ).

For some things in life the enjoyment comes from the sense of accomplishment at the end - for others from the craic along the way .

[glowprofishing]

Don't listen to anyone trying to tell you that your plan isn't adequate. Read "The Adventures of Lucky Mike - All at sea." Go for it. You are only young once and you will regret not doing a trip like this on a sailboat. Just DO IT. Don't even think twice about it, or you will end up convincing yourself otherwise. That being said, I'm 17 and go 15 miles offshore on a 12' dinghy. Sometimes you need some fresh insight.