Atlantic Crossing Costs - Canaries to Caribbean

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

well Cornell has written about how he came to set it up. I dont beleive anyones brainwashed into anything, the NARCs are evidence of that. The ARC suits people, it arived at a time when stock modern production boats became quite capable of altantic crossings, but the crews were less experienced. It suited them to have a "ghee up" , but its no more then that.

Just because you went across on your own doesnt mean you knew what you were doing!

dave

LMAO..... your damn right there... took me a couple more go's to get the hang of it...
Don't like running before all the time... prefer W-E... better piss-ups
What was that about 'Nice'...?? lol

[barnakiel]

On this side of the pond, you can estimate the costs by looking up marina prices online. In Canary Islands you can look up Rubicon / Pasito Blanco / Calero. City marina in Las Palmas is cheap but then again it is less than perfect and actually full up the month during the ARC. If you like islands it is well worth to have at least a month to explore locally.

Fuel cost now here is EUR1 per liter. Food prices are low in Canary Islands. Water is free. Repairs, etc. - are expensive. Local 'specialists' ask 30-50 EUR per hour of work that is often done very poorly (there are exceptions though). Fuel in Marocco very cheap and very low quality. Cooking gas there is very cheap.

Recently harbor fees in Marocco went pretty steeply up so if you go along that coast you will pay Med kind of money for their facilities (that range from nill to decent).

In the West Indies prices vary a lot, from cheap (anchorages + French supermarches) to damn expensive. But there you pay for something - the water is warm and so is the air. West Indies are worth the trip and there is a place for every budget.

As far as routing is concerned there is very little to say - Gibraltar to Canaries can be done any time of the year except that the later you go the more you may be forced to wait for your Gibraltar take off window. From Canaries to the West Indies you can sail any time of the year but only from Nov onwards on you can go directly. Some boats stop at CV, others do not.

The crossing can be anything from a bliss to a hell. Much depends on the year. This year has been pretty fantastic (read very good). Last year some ARC boats just gave it up and powered back to Las Palmas. So next year can be either similar or completely different. In any case they will match into the statistics with 68% probability of the weather being 'average'.

Sailing back is mostly done with a late May take off and some boats sail via Bermuda while most go directly / half-directly;-) towards the Azores. Some skip the Azores altogether and go on to the continent in one leg. From Azores onwards it is an easy sail but most boats depart before end of Sept as later you get more cold and storms more often. But because of the distances and the often bad sailing conditions on the way to the Azores many boats stop there anyway for rest, water and fuel. Those who stop seem to like the islands pretty much.

So, that's the basics I think.

Happy sailing,
b.

[saildestiny]

Guy's
Since I started the thread, thought I should weigh in. My experience is only with the Caribbean 1500 and I did it primarily for the contacts, and to get my wife comfortable with going offshore. In the following 3 ½ years we have been cruising full time I have spent a significant part of that time sailing with good friends that I met on the 1500. I shipped to Europe (St Thomas to Genoa IT) for <$14,000 in 2009 and felt that the costs to sail would have been $8 o $9K of that. That was the intent of my original post (which you guys turned into an ARC vs. alone banter). What we got for the extra 6K was 1 to 2 months of additional time in the Med that season vs. sailing the N. Atlantic and then all the way to Genoa.
Regarding “Old Salts” vs Nubie’s I agree with Dave. I have met guys who have sailed back and forth like they were commuting to work but I wouldn’t sail with them on a bet (no life raft, no epib, leaky old boat Etc.) At the same time some of the regular rally people have lots of experience and could easily do it alone, but have the money, and enjoy the parties and the social aspects (different strokes for different folks). I raced one designs for many years and am of the mind that “two sailboats going the same direction at the same time is always a race” so I enjoy “pushing the boat” within safe and comfortable limits. The Rally model provides a vehicle for that.
I won’t do the ARC going back primarily because of the cost. Have heard that going east to west is better later (ARC leaves on 11/23 in 2012). Is it fairly easy to connect up with a couple of similar speed boats in the Canaries in mid to late Dec to cross together? Also, do either of you know whether GlobalStar is a viable Sat Phone provider across the Atlantic these days?
I appreciate the comments, but my interest in the post was costs, not ARC vs. alone.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by saildestiny

(...) Have heard that going east to west is better later (ARC leaves on 11/23 in 2012). (...)

People tend to say things.

In fact, there is NO rule on when to go and there is no such thing as BETTER.

Nov till May is 'better' because there are fewer TS. But the crossing can be done at any time of the year as long as in the cyclone time you sail outside of the TS zone.

Now within the Nov-May time-frame some will say the midwinter months are 'better'. Are they? Well, the trades tend to be more consistent between the CV and the West Indies then ... but you have to get to the trades zone first which means you may be wx disadvantaged on the early 700 miles or so. Going in the winter also gives you higher statistics of nasty swell .... so ...

So, I say, forget the 'better' as in any given year the conditions can differ wildly from the mean.

BTW ARC is clearly disadvantaged by the fact that it has a FIXED take off day - they do not allow for whatever the weather is doing, they just go. Next morning it is all quiet here (thank gods) and all ARC people are back in London. Remember in the Delta year they did let them all go too! But do not try this at home.

In the four winters I have spent in Las Palmas Nov was 'better' 3 times while December was 'worse' 3 times. This year is exceptional with unusual spell of fair winds. The off year is also confirmed by unusually dry winter. God bless local watermakers. Four winters are statistically insignificant, and century spanned statistics are only a general guidance in what spectrum of weather one can expect.

Just sail on to Canary Islands and take in as much landscape on your way as you care. Then look out for a nice take off window (only if you care to have an easier acclimatisation to open water swell) and off you go.

Cheers,
b.

[yeloya]

Hi Saldestiny,

The way I understand you are more interested with the cost side of the passage. I did this passage a month ago and here are my thoughts:
-the overall cost will depend a great deal on how ready is yr boat and in which way you want to make the passage. If you have already the basic safety gear and the boat is in good shape , the cost won't be much: the provisionning for 5-6 weeks, the marina price in LAs PAlmas (I've paid 13-15 € a day for my 44 ft cat in JAnuary 2012). You will also pay the lights fees of around 60-68 €. If you have a sufficient solar and wind power, you won't spend too much fuel. If you can afford to wait 3-4 days instead of motoring when the wind is absent , you won't need at all. But for safety reason I assume you wşll have to carry a miimum 100 lt=93 €. Sat phone to me is a must. I've paid 1.200 USD including 500 minç prepaid, to call my friends for getting the weather report.
Concerning the timing, my gutfeeling is that the trades are setting up later every year. Therefore I picked the Feb and it went perfect, I did the passage in 17 days.
ARC (again my personal view) is way too early. The proof is this is the second consecutive year that they are heaving trouble with winds. I don't blame them, the people wants to be in the caribbeans in mid december but still be able to get back home for christmas and ARC provides this. Unfortunately the wind is not aware of these expectation and plans... There is however no 100 % safe timing, you will have to rely on yr luck. If yr boat is not ready and you need to add up things or repairs, Europe and Las Palmas is terribly expensive. I've paid 240 € for oil changing on my two Volvo 40HP. Life raft, wind gen/solar panels, water makers, are all expensive items.

Good luck

Yeloya

[downunder]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Well you have obviously never been on one.

Firstly, leaving aside the mandatory safety check, no one tells you anything if you don't want to listen, you don't have to attend any of the lectures,etc

Secondly, many people are accomplished sailors, but for many this is the first major ocean crossing, ie upto 4 weeks on board. People like to listen to the lectures on various issues, People, especially like the parties and the young ladies etc. The there's the rally atmosphere at the start and the massive piss up at the end etc. For many that's enjoyable. It in no way reflects on their ability as sailors. For many, this is a once in a lifetime act, after it they are back to life ashore. The fact is, and everyone knows this, you sail across on your own merits. Most rescues have over the years actually be to aid NARCs.

I never understand the sneering that comes from some quarters, usually by people who have never been on one. Its very clearly not a hand holding exercise. you do everything on your own, including getting the boat ready,provisioning etc, then you alone sail it across. its not a flotilla holiday

If you cant say something nice, say nothing at all. egh

Dave

I did not read that Boatman was sneering at the ARC but simply putting another point of view.

Simply one's choice. Suits some and particually inexperienced ocean passagemakers, not others.

[Pilotethridge]

Saildestiny,

Have a beer at Charlies for me. I used to live up there and miss it.

[bobconnie]

You mean to tell me peaple PAY to go across the ocean ?? together but not ? boy times have really changed!! I knew I was gettin old but this almost impossible for me to believe!! LOL Ive always cked the weather patterns from past years and asked local fishermen about the weather at the current time of the year, Ive made a lot of crossings of a few oceans over the years, and always paid for my own Partys !! LOL O well things change I guess. Heck if i was there I would just ask boatman for what I needed to know LOL Just messin Bob and Connie

[donradcliffe]

If you do the Canaries/West Indies route, you probably need to get down to the Canaries by early October and plan on spending 2-3 months either in a marina at 600 euro/mo or in the anchorages. The passage to the West Indies itself is not too hard on the boat or the crew ( they row across every year)-- I guess you would save yourself at least $10k compared to shipping.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

If you do the Canaries/West Indies route, you probably need to get down to the Canaries by early October and plan on spending 2-3 months either in a marina at 600 euro/mo or in the anchorages.

Why so early? Other than that the Canaries are a really nice place to spend some time, if limited on anchorages.

[yeloya]

Forgot to mention, you should definately get a twin head sails to make the passage faster and in good shape. The wind is almost always from 160 to 180 degrees and broad reaching at this angle with the swells behind will be a lot of rolls and chafing with the standard rigging.
Yeloya

[Ram]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Forgot to mention, you should definately get a twin head sails to make the passage faster and in good shape. The wind is almost always from 160 to 180 degrees and broad reaching at this angle with the swells behind will be a lot of rolls and chafing with the standard rigging.
Yeloya

Hi Yeloya Are you saying this is the wind direction as you made your way across the Atlantic?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Ram

Hi Yeloya Are you saying this is the wind direction as you made your way across the Atlantic?

think he probably meant in relation to the bow of the boat!

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by conachair

Why so early? Other than that the Canaries are a really nice place to spend some time, if limited on anchorages.

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
of the big lake they call "Gitche Gumee."
"Superior," they said, "never gives up her dead
when the gales of November come early!"


Lake Superior is a bit further north than Gibraltar, but the concept is the same--go early and suffer from light airs, or go late and hit a gale.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
of the big lake they call "Gitche Gumee."
"Superior," they said, "never gives up her dead
when the gales of November come early!"


Lake Superior is a bit further north than Gibraltar, but the concept is the same--go early and suffer from light airs, or go late and hit a gale.

Granted, not a passage to take your eye off the ball on. And atlantic Morocco is one big lee shore. But with time on your hands the forecasts will show for enough days in advance what the lows are up to. I did it late november & was becalmed for days.

Edit - Actually with the big ridge of high that's been dominating the east side of the atlantic for the past while, now would not be a bad time to go. Downwind all the way with maybe some light airs. Lets watch for a few days & see how it evolves. People love it when someone is wrong