Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-07-2013, 18:29   #31
Registered User
 
ebaugh's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On the boat
Boat: DeFever 44
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post

Thanks, all that solar IS for the electric propulsion! Hybrid gas motor too.
But what to do with it all the power once I'm anchored is the question. I could try to manufacture fuel, but making and selling ice (and ice cream) seems easier, safer, more fun and I'd get to meet lots of people.
My experience, only in the eastern and western Caribbean, is most cruisers are pretty self sufficient energy wise. But YMMV.

I'd use the excess to power AC in the master sleeping cabin....
__________________

__________________
ebaugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 07:04   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Boat: 45' CC ketch
Posts: 332
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Clark H356 View Post
4kw of installed solar is not that much. I have a 5kw Northern Lights generator and it runs my H356 just fine with all the same stuff you ar talking about, but 4 kw would be too small for my boat. I don't have gobs of excess power! With AC on a 50 foot boat, I think you will find it too small - you will not produce 4KW of power from a 4kw system. You need to look into power efficiencies of real life systems before you put all your eggs in the solar basket!
Totally agree on efficience matters. AC may be pretty power-hungry - or not. I have decided on MAR-IX inverter system which is very energy-efficient. Besides, you really don't need to cool down all the boat at once - usually it is a pilothouse/galley in the daytime, and master sleeping cabin in the night. With proper heat insulation and heat rejection tech, and inverter AC, I believe you will be able to fit into 4 KW with everything, unless you cool down all the boat with all cabins and so on (can't imagine why one would want to do that).

This is what I will be doing with mine:

1. All windows glazed with 3M "night vision" film with highest heat rejection factor (up to 72%) (or similar)
2. 3mm insulation on the hull, and 5mm on overheads, with Mascoat Marine-DTM insulation paint.
3. Solar reflective paint on the deck.
4. I am seriously considering using high-quality heat exchanger for ventilation, to further increase energy saving. This will be installed at least in master cabin and run off the CO2 sensor, keeping air always fresh AND reducing energy losses.
5. Of course, efficient freezer with extreme insulation, LED lights everywhere, efficient inverters, efficient electronics, that's obvious.

With all above, I hope that 3-4 KW solar (plus wind) will produce enough juice to feed all the stuff. Will it? We'll see!
__________________

__________________
Sea Frog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 07:09   #33
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

How about selling ice cream? Most of us have a sweet tooth to satisfy. A small ice cream maker can use up your excess power output.

Mauritz
__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:20   #34
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknav View Post
How about selling ice cream? Most of us have a sweet tooth to satisfy. A small ice cream maker can use up your excess power output.

Mauritz
Now Maruritz,I know you are old enough to remember hand cranked ice cream machines..So get cranking we dont need no stinking electric machine..Thats a good idea for the make money while crusing gang,sell ice cream!lol
__________________
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:34   #35
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Hiya Tropic! I was in Guadeloupe - French Antilles, a few years ago. At the base of a volcano, which I was about to hike, was a lady with her son making ice cream; by hand. I saw her preparing a batch of coconut ice cream; a mount of coconut shreds were just made for the ice cream. I bought myself 3 scoops, and on the way back from the hike I bought about a gallon to take with. It was the BEST hand-churned coconut ice cream I ever tasted! <I am hungry now for some ice cream.>

Mauritz
Going to behave now...watching my diet while eating choc choc chip ice cream!
__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:39   #36
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
Now Maruritz,I know you are old enough to remember hand cranked ice cream machines..So get cranking we dont need no stinking electric machine..Thats a good idea for the make money while crusing gang,sell ice cream!lol
Selling ice cream, good idea, why didn't I think of it??

Making ice cream is not energy intensive, keeping it ice cream and not cream is.
__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 15:04   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 111
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Not sure of the legality on selling it, but set up your own floating brewery?
Braumeister - 50L | MoreBeer

With my serious hat on, you're better off using it to cut down your spending before you try to make money from it. That means cooking with electricity not propane, possibly a big freezer if that helps save money on food, that sort of thing. Look at what you actually spend money on and figure if there is a way to reduce that with the free power first.
__________________
pdf27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 16:11   #38
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Folks, is it just me, or did the whole world slip a decimal point while I was out sailing?

To produce four kilowatts of power, you would need twenty 200-watt panels. The combined size of that array would be roughly 3,000 square feet. That's 30' wide and 100' long.

I realize that catamarans have more space for panels than monohulls, but....
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 16:41   #39
Registered User
 
J Clark H356's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Grand Rivers, KY
Boat: Hunter 2003 356 - Persistence
Posts: 505
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Bash: This whole thread makes no sense. You are closer to the reality of this than those who have found uses for his excess power. There will be no excess power because he won't produce anywhere near 4000 watts or 4kw. If he did, it wouldn't be enough to power a 50 foot boat with HVAC. It would take at least two 16,000 btuh HVAC Units to cool it and the would require 3200 watts to run and a lot more to start. Add lighting, refrigeration, electronics, etc. and you have an 8 to 10kw load. If solar would do that, the generator business would be done for. He hasn't done the math correctly and doesn't account for the conversion efficiencies from solar to battery to AC or DC use. Insulative paint is worth virtually nothing in terms of heat gain nor is the window film an effective heat gain retarder. I wish him well, but this is not a realistic approach as the amount of panel space will likely exceed the surface area of his vessel.

Last year on a project I was involved in, we installed a 15kw system on a roof at a fixed optimum angle for Tennessee. The most it has produced in a single day is 10kw of power and only for a few hours in the middle of a blue bird day. The system cost $90,000 and took a significant amount of square feet. TN produces about 80% of the solar energy available in Arizona, so it isn't as much a lack of available solar energy as it is efficiency in converting solar energy to power. The system has produced about 20,000kw of power in a year or an average of 54.8 kw per day or 2.16kw per hour (average). This system is almost 4 times larger than this poster plans on installing - 15kw versus. 4kw. It is optimized, whereas a sailboat will not be. It is also new, and will degrade to 85% within 10 years, thus these are real, new actual results, not theory. On this basis, his average will be 4/15 or .266 x 2.16kw = .57kw per hour or 570 watts. Reduce this for moving, lack of optimum angle, clouds, etc. and you see the impracticality of running any substantial electrical load with solar at the level he is contemplating.

I wish what he is proposing would work. If it would, Solenda and the other solar projects we taxpayers have invested millions in would serve the world in a most beneficent way. Sadly, this is not the reality of solar, thus the market has dealt this industry a very harsh reality. A major breakthrough in efficiency is needed to make this industry viable.
__________________
J Clark H356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 17:45   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Spain
Boat: Colvic Victor 34
Posts: 12
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

Bash,
That's why I would like to see any pics!
__________________
Marmenorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 18:58   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

We have a 5.5 KW genny, on a 51 ft boat, and I sat down and tryed to figure out where I could put enough solor panals to do the job for us ! and ya know, theres just not enough room on a mono hull anyway ! Ive got 2 of them at 100 watt that take care of the batts most of the time ! so we don't have to run the engine or genny to keep the batts up, at least most of the time ! If it's bad cloudy or raining it wont do it, but it works most of the time down here ! In fact the only time we run the genny is when the heat outside is 90 degs or better, then the AC is nice to get some sleep !! We have all the fridge and feazer space we need, and the watermaker is 12 volt and is pretty volt friendly! I guess we are lucky even if we use a little more diesel ! LOL
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 22:02   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 111
Re: Would you buy blocks of ICE ?

I'm looking at fitting a 4kW system to my house (in the UK) and I really don't think my roof is going to be big enough. Most are 3.2m x 8m (12'7" x 26'3"). Predicted output is ~3000 kWh/year (~36,000 Amp-hours/year at 12V, or an average of ~4 Amps).

One additional problem that I don't think has been mentioned yet - shading. PV really hates one panel being shaded, to the extent that if part of one panel is shaded you won't get anything from the rest of the string. Rigging/masts/sails will do that.
Incidentally, this is one reason why yachts tend to have lots of small panels rather than one big one - you can design the system to be much more tolerant of partial shade.
__________________

__________________
pdf27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.