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Old 09-03-2011, 20:03   #1
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Would 'this' Be Breaking the Rules ?

Doing this from the boat?

For those who don't feel like reading the whole thing, it's called Mancave. It's basically like Pampered Chef, or Tupperware parties, or etc. for men. You invite a bunch of people over, drink beer, grill, and try to sell them grilling supplies and meat (like Omaha Steaks).

Question is, according to the Coast Guard would this be legal? You would be taking potential customers out on your boat, but...your providing all the food and drinks, they aren't paying you anything, and the products you are trying to sell them are completely unrelated to the boat/trip/charter, etc.
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:13   #2
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

In Australia we have "Beer and prawn nights" which consists of slabs of beer, buckets of prawns(shrimp) an naked women. fun
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:14   #3
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Speaking here in terms of the US Coast Guard licensing requirement:

The CG doesn't use the term "potential customers." It talks about "passengers for hire." It defines these, somewhat strictly, as someone who BY PREVIOUS ARRANGEMENT, has arranged passage on your boat. For example, if you are a scuba instructor and take your students out on your boat, even though you claim that they were paying tuition for instruction and not for passage, the CG will define them as "passengers for hire" since your contract included passage by previous arrangement. Likewise, if you take a buddy out fishing, and he offers to pay for gas prior to when you leave the dock, the CG will consider him a "passenger for hire."

Bottom line, you need to structure the event so that there is absolutely no previous arrangement by which your guests become "passengers for hire."
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:14   #4
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

If your boat is your home................. why not. What can the A's say?
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:16   #5
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Bottom line, you need to structure the event so that there is absolutely no previous arrangement by which your guests become "passengers for hire."
Just an invite w/o a definition!
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:20   #6
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

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As a 'thank you' for hosting, the MEATing host is rewarded with FREE Man Cave products, based on the sales at the MEATing.
How many grilling products do you need on a Gem?
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:22   #7
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beau View Post
In Australia we have "Beer and prawn nights" which consists of slabs of beer, buckets of prawns(shrimp) an naked women. fun
How lucky am I; my shift this week as a Spit Roast Chef is at a bucks party with “girlie” entertainment? I am on strict orders to keep it professional till the food is served then it is anything goes!

On the original question I am wondering if the answer goes back to a taxation related issue. That is, are you strictly using the boat to run a "business" or is this a “hobby” type thing? There are cases on this piont and any decent text lists the criteria.

Looking at if I ever bought a bigger boat and needed a way to write off some costs, the business part is not a bad idea. At the end of the day the answer might take a bit of accounting and if the figures don’t run or the boat is unsuitable maybe some legitimate dodging and swerving?
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:23   #8
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pirate Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Or... just invite em for a Barbie....
"Hey guys... its a gorgeous day... should we head for somewhere nicer than the Marina.."
Drop the hook, start grilling the steaks... then..
"By the way.. you seen these... they're awesome.. if you like I can order some for you guys as well.."
Head back in... everyone trots over to your 'Wheels' in the car park and do the 'Paper for Plastic' exchange there...
No rules broken...
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Old 09-03-2011, 20:50   #9
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Or... just invite em for a Barbie....
"Hey guys... its a gorgeous day... should we head for somewhere nicer than the Marina.."
Drop the hook, start grilling the steaks... then..
"By the way.. you seen these... they're awesome.. if you like I can order some for you guys as well.."
Head back in... everyone trots over to your 'Wheels' in the car park and do the 'Paper for Plastic' exchange there...
No rules broken...
Not at all a bad idea if you want to avoid the survey/business thing. What you are really doing is trying to make this outing a "social" thing. That is, put it outside any business or contractual obligations. I.E., legitimate dodging and swerving!
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Old 09-03-2011, 21:47   #10
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

I would think just to CYA, make up a crew list, that way they are not passengers.

Or the safer way call or write the USCG and get their answer. Be better to write or email, that way you get a written response you can pront and carrry.

GOOD LUCK
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Old 09-03-2011, 22:05   #11
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Speaking here in terms of the US Coast Guard licensing requirement:

The CG doesn't use the term "potential customers." It talks about "passengers for hire." It defines these, somewhat strictly, as someone who BY PREVIOUS ARRANGEMENT, has arranged passage on your boat. For example, if you are a scuba instructor and take your students out on your boat, even though you claim that they were paying tuition for instruction and not for passage, the CG will define them as "passengers for hire" since your contract included passage by previous arrangement. Likewise, if you take a buddy out fishing, and he offers to pay for gas prior to when you leave the dock, the CG will consider him a "passenger for hire."

Bottom line, you need to structure the event so that there is absolutely no previous arrangement by which your guests become "passengers for hire."

thats not really true: "Consideration means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including
monetary payment going to an individual, person, or entity. It does not include a
voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or
donation of fuel food, beverage, or other supplies
(46 U.S.C. 2101 (5a)).


Passenger for hire means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a
condition of carriage on the vessel
, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner,
charterer, operator, agent or any other person having an interest in the vessel (46
U.S.C.2101(21a)).

They have really made it quite clear now, the only thing there is if you were to tell them as a payment for the boat ride they have to buy something that would be a consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel,


This is how/why you can still get free crew, they pay their SHARE of the actual expenses. They are not really crew.

You make them all crew they better have pasted a drug test and in a random drug test program, and no where in the rules is there " BY PREVIOUS ARRANGEMENT"
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Old 09-03-2011, 22:10   #12
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
if you take a buddy out fishing, and he offers to pay for gas prior to when you leave the dock, the CG will consider him a "passenger for hire."
Sharing expenses is "not for hire." There is a lot more expense beyond fuel.
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Old 09-03-2011, 22:24   #13
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Don't be 'that guy'

Apart from the legality, let's talk for a minute about the REAL rules...

... those of good decorum.

In other words, 'Don't be THAT guy'

I remember meeting a guy on Hamburger beach... he was kinda annoying, and I noticed most people steered clear of him.

He had this really obnoxious habit of talking about what people do/did for a living... one of the nice thing about cruising is to GET AWAY from these people.

Turns out, he was a financial planner and was looking for 'prospects' among his fellow cruisers. Completely uncool IMHO. Might be ok, if he were laid back about it... AND UP FRONT. But this 'hanging out' was kind of sleazy.

If I encountered a Am Way sales pitch while out cruising I would react the same way.

I don't know how your 'parties' work, but my advice is to be up front...

If you invite folks over for cocktails and start trying to peddle something you risk becoming 'that guy'.

if you are 'that guy' in the anchorage / marina you may find your list of friends gets short in a hurry.
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Old 09-03-2011, 22:47   #14
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferShane View Post
How lucky am I; my shift this week as a Spit Roast Chef is at a bucks party with “girlie” entertainment?
"spit roast chef"? Hah! That sounds good work of you can get it! Lot more fun than cooking!
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:26   #15
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Re: Would this Be Breaking the Rules ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
How many grilling products do you need on a Gem?
Not much...but my customers may need more than me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyhorob View Post
Passenger for hire means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a
condition of carriage on the vessel
, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner,
charterer, operator, agent or any other person having an interest in the vessel (46
U.S.C.2101(21a)).

They have really made it quite clear now, the only thing there is if you were to tell them as a payment for the boat ride they have to buy something that would be a consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel,
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Key phrase in bold above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Sharing expenses is "not for hire." There is a lot more expense beyond fuel.
From what I've read, that absolutely is considered for hire as far as the USCG is concerned. Even bringing food or drink, is considered for hire. Of course there are loop holes. For example, once again that bold line above. Also I believe there is something in the wording about it being allowed if voluntary and not pre-determined.

s/v 'Faith' - NO WAY I'm going to become that guy. This is something I'd do part time on occasion, and it would be advertised as such. And even then I think I'd be really casual about it. Like here's some catalogs for what this thing is all about. Now let's just go out and have some fun.
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