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Boatguy30 · 08-05-2013, 17:23

Made a real pile on that Morgan 27 eh?

Capt Rottnest · 09-05-2013, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim_thomsen

Many people plan to buy a boat for a trip...say a circumnavigation in 5 years. One choice is buying an older boat, putting a bunch money into it to get it ready and then selling it after the trip. Another choice is paying much more for a newer boat, putting less into it and selling it for a higher price after the trip. Assuming the cash is available buying the more expensive boat (and having it a higher percentage of your net worth) often turns out to be the cheaper total cost. And it's a whole lot more fun to not have to fix as many things along the way.

But that means being sucked into the "think of the resale" trap, meaning no mods that might better suit your lifestyle. For example, buy new at $220k and sell 5 years later at $150k, or build from scratch exactly what you want, not what you think the 2nd market wants, spending $50k all up. Sounds like a better deal.

daddle · 09-05-2013, 02:33

I spent almost everything on the boat, women and booze. The rest I just wasted.

If you cannot see the advantage of owning a boat vs. any other asset you are not a sailor ... CF aint "Condo Forum".

David_Old_Jersey · 09-05-2013, 02:41

I guess the answer depends on whether you value your worth in only money.

zeehag · 09-05-2013, 05:14

doj has it right.

SimonV · 09-05-2013, 06:09

My boat keeps me warm when its cold, dry when its raining. Gives me excitement and Joy. Takes me to places I have never been. Allows me to see things few others have seen. My boat has given me the opportunity to meet like minded people with no agenda other than living life. Allows me to be free, and when I wish to, live of the grid. All she asks in return is to be maintained. What is my boats worth, she is PRICELESS.

Tony B · 09-05-2013, 06:37

Getting a little abstract here, but here is my thought.....
For an elderly couple, a house is an above ground money pit. Fix the roof, plumbing, pay taxes, etc. on something that has zero value. How do I come up with zero value? Simple, they intend to die in that house and will never reap a penny for it. So therefore it has no $$ value to them. The tax collector and benefactors - well that's a different story.

Here is another one: to non-boaters, is vacationing considered a money pit?

Kenomac · 09-05-2013, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony B

For an elderly couple, a house is an above ground money pit. Fix the roof, plumbing, pay taxes, etc. on something that has zero value. How do I come up with zero value?

Your logic doesn't make any sense. The elderly couple has to have a roof over their heads... there's value in that. Where would you have them live?

Vacations are entertainment, not investments.

Bluewaters2812 · 09-05-2013, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony B

Getting a little abstract here, but here is my thought.....
For an elderly couple, a house is an above ground money pit. Fix the roof, plumbing, pay taxes, etc. ...

I absolutely agree ... rates, taxes, electricity, gas, water bills are a huge expense. Try owning a house in the UK and one quickly feels just how expensive it is ... easily £500.00 - £800.00 per month rising in the Winter dramatically just for the basic services and council taxes etc. The garden upkeep as well. The fact you cannot do away with at least 1 car.

I think many people tend to "forget" just how much a house takes every month and I have only touched the surface. When a boiler or the like breaks, oh boy, add a couple of thousand POUNDS (GBP)!

Aside from the money, no matter how many times we look out the window or step into the garden, the view never changes!

Every roof the majority of us have over our heads costs money but gimme my boat and the freedom and changing scenery anyday and the cost becomes ... well, PRICELESS! So much more can be said but I'll leave it at that.

Teknav · 09-05-2013, 07:04

Make no mistake about it, the enjoyment derived from sailing or flying is priceless. If done continuously, it has to be sustained by very deep pockets; very few folks can afford that. Everything being equal, sailing/flying costs much more than renting an apartment or owning a house. Mauritz

JK n Smitty · 09-05-2013, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teknav

Make no mistake about it, the enjoyment derived from sailing or flying is priceless. If done continuously, it has to be sustained by very deep pockets; very few folks can afford that. Everything being equal, sailing/flying costs much more than renting an apartment or owning a house. Mauritz

Sure, keep telling yourself and everyone you know that. I like cruising in less crowded waters!

**Dockhead** · 09-05-2013, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

It's the same math. If you don't put around 5-10% of the value of a house into upkeep and improvements, it generally won't maintain its value. Add up what you've spent on your house but make sure you've included the cost of everything, mowing your lawn, trimming the hedges, planting flowers, mulching, racking the leaves, replacing the roof, water heater, updating the kitchen and bathroom(s). And divide that by the number of years you've owned your house. Some things you do yourself to save money and you might be able to reduce the total cost closer to 5% that way. But it's the same math as on the boat.

And the appreciation of the underlining land is generally an illusion. Once adjusted for inflation, there is little gain. And many of us in our 30s and 40s are actually seeing a decrease in value

If you put 5-10% of the boats value into maintenance and upgrades each year, you won't see nearly the depreciation. The problem is that most don't want to invest this kind of money into something that is seen as a "hobby" but then want to complain when that delayed maintenance/upgrades hits them in the wallet. It was really their own doing but most can't face that. Live aboards have a different mentality about this and view it as maintaining their home.

It depends on the region, city, and neighborhood. Different houses or apartments have radically different characteristics in terms of the relative value of the building and that of the underlying land. Generic suburban housing in the rust belt has been and is a big loser (no matter how well you take care of the building). Generic suburban housing everywhere, except perhaps Silicon Valley, has been a loser and has brought the average down. But housing in good neighborhoods, particularly good inner-city neighborhoods where there is no supply of vacant land, in prosperous cities, has been and is a big winner, far outpacing the rate of inflation, even if you let the building go to carp. It's a cliche, but real estate really is all about location, always. Not about the building. The building is a mere commodity.

Likewise, the percentage of the value needed for decent maintenance and reserves for capital improvements can't be stated as a simple percentage. 5% - 10% would be about the maximum, and would apply to quite elaborate buildings on nearly worthless land. I doubt if I spend more than 0.05% a year on my primary residence, which has appreciated by more than ten-fold since 1997 when I bought it. But that's because the building is a very, very small part of its value, in this case.

But that's not to say that there's anything wrong with separating investment activities from your living habits. The Germans mostly don't even own their own housing; they mostly rent. They have a high savings rate, and put their savings into pension funds. They do quite all right. Living on a boat can be the same. It's just important to remember that spending all your money on a house, and getting a place to live and an investment at the same time (if the housing was intelligently chosen), is different from spending all your money on a boat, and not getting anything but a depreciating asset. In the first case, it's kind of ok to spend all your money or nearly all of it, especially if you still have some years of earning ahead of you, but in the second, it's not too good. If you don't have a good piece of real estate, then you need to put more of your income into other kinds of investment, if you want to have anything to retire on.

**sailorchic34** · 09-05-2013, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teknav

Make no mistake about it, the enjoyment derived from sailing or flying is priceless. If done continuously, it has to be sustained by very deep pockets; very few folks can afford that. Everything being equal, sailing/flying costs much more than renting an apartment or owning a house. Mauritz

Says the man with a De Havilland. I'm thinking that its not your home. I can assure you that some of us can and do live on far less money per year then what your plane costs just in annual maintenance. But I can see why you think its so expensive. Not all of us have such expenses though or deep pockets.

Charlie · 09-05-2013, 08:57

We are all going to die some day. We might day on a boat. In a house. Or in a rest home. We might die rich or poor. If a boat allows you to live life then you can't count it's total value by its price. If a boat sucks the life out of you then it is worth less then its price.
I love working on my boat and I love sailing my boat. But I don't want to end up at a point in life where I can't physically or financially keep up with the demands of my boat. To my view of life I can't let my boat be 100% of my net worth -- I envy those that can.