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Old 16-10-2017, 11:48   #1
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Time to chance course

O.k.,
I have been moored alongside this forum long enough by now, I saw quite a few opinions and even more advice. Time for me to enter the discussion.

First some more info about me. I am 53 years old and I grew up in the midle of a lake in The Netherlands. I was able to sail a small boat (in Dutch; a 'pieremogoggel') before I could swim and ride a bike (so before I was 6 years old). Started windsurfing when they first came on the market (I was about 13 or so.) For 8 years I would surf every chance I got. And when the lake froze over we would ice surf. So with this in mind I dare to say on inland water I'm hard to beat!

But here it comes. My girl and I have the idea and resources to start our business on water as skippered charter. Are there veterans among the readers of this forum to advice about this?

Roughly this is our idea:

location the Med.
a 5 cabin used Bavaria 50 or something alike as a mothership, please advice about the best ship,

in the second or third year two or three one or two cabin boats to form a flotille. Please advice about how to organise and which ships would be suitable.

Opinion is also welcome, I welcome constructive criticism

If there is some input I will you bother you all with the steps already undertaken!

Cheerz for now

Robért
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Old 16-10-2017, 15:33   #2
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Re: Time to chance course

The charter biz is hard work, often in the end for not much money.

There are several threads discussing this subject...take a look at them too.
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Old 16-10-2017, 17:05   #3
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Wink Re: Time to chance course

Like i said in the original post

"I have been moored alongside this forum long enough by now, I saw quite a few opinions and even more advice. Time for me to enter the discussion." since last may.Yes I have red most of them.

And your totaly right when it comes to loading a bunch of people up on saturday. Set sail together with the whole charter hurd. take the same route tell the same story week after week after week.

Our aim is not that group of people/guests. My girlfriend is a psychlogist for the department of defense, a yoga teachers teacher and profesional coach.For example on her initiative she gives yoga to marines who are hospitalized for whatever reason.

My speciality was/is (for I am now selfproclaimed pensionato) refocusing and motivating of management departments mostly commercial where the primary goal 1+1=3 is.

Combining our skills to a portofolio of training/restructuring opens posibilities and challenges, with better revenues.

grtz

R
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Old 16-10-2017, 17:36   #4
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Re: Time to chance course

There is a market for corporate team building, retreats, etc. Have captained some in the past. We used to run corporate team building events with multiple boats so we could add a little friendly competion into the mix.
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Old 16-10-2017, 18:11   #5
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Re: Time to chance course

Welcome to CF and having lived beside the lake in Alsmeer for a few years doing yacht projects, I appreciate your background.

First, you have to identify your clients/customers.

Why would they want to go with you and your partner as opposed to more established charter companies?

What are your primary objectives and is fully seaborne the best environment to achieve that?

For example, I have captained a Superyacht providing "Wellness" councillors and detox services for the very wealthy.

Owners and I came to realize that regardless of how large the yacht was, it got pretty small when clients were dealing with their demons.
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Old 16-10-2017, 19:13   #6
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Red face Re: Time to chance course

Dear Pelagic,

A regular charter company doesn't offer the mental training. And as for the living space, relative small, it's good to confront them with each other. I'm talking about CEO,CFO, Owner and or main shareholder level as customer, they will enter with high hats and need special effort (on their side) and very exhausting relaxation (YOGA,Padleboard, etc) to get through to them in such a short time on board. Often repeated.

But my question is more regarding the hardware, although I apreciate the advice and critical look. As I deduct from most postings, advice is to buy a boat and start sailing. Instead of buying a fixer-up and be ashore for another year. So where and what kind. Budget is appr. 150K euro, this is all-in. Except our first year, this will be getting sed to the boat, writing testing and networking and most important HOLIDAY

Please advice.

thxz

R.

Oops it's been 4 o'clock time to take a nap.
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Old 16-10-2017, 19:58   #7
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Re: Time to chance course

Unfortunately, your budget does not allow a lot of choices in the 50ft range.
Finding boat first is your first challenge.

Just a thought.....Maybe storm damaged boats from the caribbean charter fleet offers you a buy in .
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Old 17-10-2017, 10:52   #8
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Re: Time to chance course

Quote:
Originally Posted by robregje View Post
O.k.,
I have been moored alongside this forum long enough by now, I saw quite a few opinions and even more advice. Time for me to enter the discussion.

First some more info about me. I am 53 years old and I grew up in the midle of a lake in The Netherlands. I was able to sail a small boat (in Dutch; a 'pieremogoggel') before I could swim and ride a bike (so before I was 6 years old). Started windsurfing when they first came on the market (I was about 13 or so.) For 8 years I would surf every chance I got. And when the lake froze over we would ice surf. So with this in mind I dare to say on inland water I'm hard to beat!

But here it comes. My girl and I have the idea and resources to start our business on water as skippered charter. Are there veterans among the readers of this forum to advice about this?

Roughly this is our idea:

location the Med.
a 5 cabin used Bavaria 50 or something alike as a mothership, please advice about the best ship,

in the second or third year two or three one or two cabin boats to form a flotille. Please advice about how to organise and which ships would be suitable.

Opinion is also welcome, I welcome constructive criticism

If there is some input I will you bother you all with the steps already undertaken!

Cheerz for now

Robért
Read todays first topic.
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Old 17-10-2017, 11:59   #9
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Re: Time to chance course

OK you asked for advice right? The charter business? Forget it. My experience....I got my 6-Pack license almost 30 years ago with similar ideas. My plan was to have a route here in the PNW where I would start out with the folks from Everett. sail/motor to Port Townsend drop them off at a B&B. Pick them up the next day sail/motor to Friday Harbor. Drop them off again at a scheduled B&B pick them up and return to Everett. Working 2 or 3 day charters. Sounds good right? Well, with the expensive insurance, boat upkeep, the no-shows, the lady guests getting sick and barfing all over the cockpit, the men getting drunk and peeing all over the head, and everyone complaining that 5.5-6 knots in the rain and cold just wasn't fast enough. Can't this thing go any faster? Is this boat about to tip over? But I can't swim. Together with the lack of anything to do while on board, the expensive B&B's their money concerns, their other frustrations, after one summer I had had enough. You must realize if you have a license, you are responsible for it all. Anything happens you have the license you pay. You will be a family counselor, screaming crying kids, a bar-tender, a chef, a divorce broker, a priest and most of all responsible for everything. For everything. The big guys have people to do the bookings and the contracts with hotels etc. They have the insurance and even mechanics. You starting out with a 50'er will have your hands full with just the boat and the upkeep/expenses on it. The charter people, some will help, some will just sneer and undercut to steal clients. It's a tough business. There will be some good days when the wind is perfect and no one gets to sunburned. But in my humble opinion get a smaller boat in the 35-40' range you and your lady continue doing what you do on a part time basis and relax. Save some of your money. Stay cool and lower your blood pressures. Have a sundowner in the cockpit of your boat and watch the charter boats come in. Watch the poor frustrated skippers, the bareboat folks try to anchor, and most having a not so great time. The experienced folks will get their own boats and join you. They will become friends. That's what I now do. Ah.....it's after 5:00 somewhere so it must be cocktail hour. Right on!!
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Old 17-10-2017, 12:53   #10
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Re: Time to chance course

Cadence, I just did Thanxz. 1Sunseeker Your love for your old job is overwhelming, I hear you though, and experience passed through without physical beeing there devides us from most species.

Grtz

Robert
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Old 17-10-2017, 14:56   #11
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Re: Time to chance course

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Cadence, I just did Thanxz. 1Sunseeker Your love for your old job is overwhelming, I hear you though, and experience passed through without physical beeing there devides us from most species.

Grtz

Robert
I ran 7 yachts some times skippering sometime b/b. Lots of logistic problems with breakdowns etc., but lots of fun. Met some great people and had great BBQ s. Go for it, you're a long time looking at the lid.
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Old 17-10-2017, 16:20   #12
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Re: Time to chance course

Strikes me, with one boat it should be looked at as supplemental income and a good life stile it you can carry the overhead of primarily the insurance during lean times. Probably hard to compete with the big buck charter services but like any small business word of mouth it your best advertisement.
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Old 17-10-2017, 16:34   #13
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Re: Time to chance course

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I ran 7 yachts some times skippering sometime b/b. Lots of logistic problems with breakdowns etc., but lots of fun. Met some great people and had great BBQ s. Go for it, you're a long time looking at the lid.
Given the negatives documented here, I too have to balance it out that often it can be great fun. Afterall, you are getting paid to go sailing with (hopefully) like minded people.

Its that last bit, "like minded people", which makes all the difference. For example, I used to mostly run sailing school charters...so the guests were sailors or wannabe sailors. Had a great time. Only one bad charter experience ever over about 20 years. My wife even ran a few with me, guests were couples, and we all had a good time...and I got a few boat bucks to boot!

However, if you are catering to the non-sailing luxury vacation crowd, it can be a whole different experience. I once ran a sailing school charter on a parallel route with a fellow captain who had a luxury vacation crowd aboard...he was not having fun...PITA guests who like to get plastered every night and puke in the cockpit...he would dinghy over and visit at anchor to get a little break from his guests.
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Old 18-10-2017, 05:47   #14
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Re: Time to chance course

If you want to break your neck, go ahead .

This is a romantic foolness since the '80s, and the market just worsened.

On a second hand Bavaria you attract no selected customers, and those who are pay and pretend.

As a Dutchman, you should be more practical and aware. If any, try it on someone's else boat and money, or be yourself a customer.
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Old 18-10-2017, 07:04   #15
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Re: Time to chance course

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...

... If any, try it on someone's else boat and money, or be yourself a customer.
Something to be said for working in the charter biz first before dumping your own cash into. If you have the skills and liscences then getting a job in the charter biz is easy...its high burn out, high turnover...so new jobs open up all the time.

Can either of you cook? Thats a very important charter biz skill.
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