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Old 19-02-2008, 18:04   #46
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
How come I never hear anybody talk or rather write about Duplex stainless steel , one can get anchor chain and all sizes of warps made from this very high grade stainless.
We use it as our standard anchor chain , 8 mm chain holds 6000 kilo,s
It is fantastic.
Gideon

As with all steel types, you need to specify the number for the duplex steel type, either the US style e.g. 304, or else the European e.g. 1.4571 (316Ti), then one can start looking at corrosion tables, to see what chemical resistance this type offers.

Both 304 and 316 are corroded by NaCl, but relatively slowly. When we use thin membranes e.g for level measurement by measuring the hydrostatic pressure, then neither of the above last in salt water, not even Hastalloy C, we either go with gold plating for non abrasive applications, or else Tantalum which is more expensive than Gold.

One can bring down the corrosion by electropolishing, and a good waxing also helps, if you can keep galvanic corrosion at bay by not mixing with other metals.
In the offshore industry duplex steels are often specified for pressurised parts.

For boats, 316L is readily available from suppliers to the food and dairy industry, and is slightly better than standard 316 where chlorides are present.

Alan
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Old 19-02-2008, 18:20   #47
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While I sympathise with Pat's (Never Monday) frustration at people who do not support their local chandleryies and service providers, in favour of shopping online, there is a limit to how much loyalty a local vendor can expect. I am all for suypporting the local guy, but when he quotes me $700 for an item I can buy on-line, brand new with tags, for under 200, my loyalty doesn't enter into it any more.

If I can shop around on-line and find an item for price $x, plus $y postage and handling, then my local chandlery would want to be able to get reasonably close, say 25% more might be acceptable. But 300 or 400% more is not good enough.
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Old 20-02-2008, 03:25   #48
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
How come I never hear anybody talk or rather write about Duplex stainless steel , one can get anchor chain and all sizes of warps made from this very high grade stainless.
We use it as our standard anchor chain , 8 mm chain holds 6000 kilo,s
It is fantastic.
Gideon
Which Duplex Stainless Steel* is used in your anchor chains, as manufactured by whom?

* Duplex stainless steels are a "family" of grades, with a range in corrosion performance depending on their alloy content.
Duplex stainless steels are often categorised into four groups:

1. Lean Duplex, such as 2304 (S32304)
2.2205 (S32205) Standard Duplex, the workhorse grade
3. 25 Cr Duplex, such as 255 (S32550) and S31260;
4. Super Duplex, such as 2507 (S32750).
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Old 20-02-2008, 07:04   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Which Duplex Stainless Steel* is used in your anchor chains, as manufactured by whom?

* Duplex stainless steels are a "family" of grades, with a range in corrosion performance depending on their alloy content.
Duplex stainless steels are often categorised into four groups:

1. Lean Duplex, such as 2304 (S32304)
2.2205 (S32205) Standard Duplex, the workhorse grade
3. 25 Cr Duplex, such as 255 (S32550) and S31260;
4. Super Duplex, such as 2507 (S32750).
Hallo Gord we get our anchor chain from Wasi in Germany and the type is 2507 as specified.

Greetings
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Old 20-02-2008, 11:39   #50
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I don't see the term in use in the U.S. in connection with chain. 316 s.s chain is advertised at about 800% more in price than high tensile grade 40 (G4) chain, which apparently is as strong or stronger, but I don't know if it is duplex or not. One hears it said that ss chain will let go without showing signs of stress, though whether this is true or truer than it is of HT, I don't know. Galvanized HT 40 is the chain in common use here now, I would say.
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Old 20-02-2008, 11:49   #51
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I don't see the term in use in the U.S. in connection with chain. 316 s.s chain is advertised at about 800% more in price than high tensile grade 40 (G4) chain, which apparently is as strong or stronger, but I don't know if it is duplex or not. One hears it said that ss chain will let go without showing signs of stress, though whether this is true or truer than it is of HT, I don't know. Galvanized HT 40 is the chain in common use here now, I would say.
The reason for us to choose Duplex 1447 is weight
we can now do with 8 mm at 1.8 kilo per meter while the galvanized 10 mm weights 3.2 kilo per meter x 100 meters.
so we save 140 kilo. just on anchor chain
The cost is high we pay 27,00 euro per meter and that is because we purchase 1000 meters per order
Good Quality galvanized chain costs around 7 euros per meter so the extra cost is 2000 euro or 3000 USD for a weight saving of 310 lbs or 4 % of the cats weight That is lot of extra beer or 3/4 of an inch extra bridge deck clearance.
Greetings
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:06   #52
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The reason for us to choose Duplex 1447 is weight
...
Alloy SAF 2507 (UNS S32750) is a Super Duplex Stainless Steel, with 25% chromium, 4% molybdenum, and 7% nickel.

What is 1447 ?

The retail cost of 316 S.S. chain is less than 3 times that of G-40 H.T. galvanized.
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:28   #53
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My chain price sources are westmarine.com, (not very attractive pricing) and fisheriessupply.com (usually reasonable, but not the best pricing-but they will negotiate.) But, even if you get better prices, I wouldn't expect the differential to change much. West Marine was 900% more, and Fisheries Supply was 800% more. Below is pricing from Fisheries. (Stainless) 133353 SCR#3/8BBB 0.39" 1.10" 0.54" 3⁄8" 3750 lbs. $30.66 $26.98 (H4) 00389 ACO#3/8HT 3⁄8" 5400 lbs. 1.50 lbs. $5.51 $4.07 Yes So, for the above quote, you get a lot more working strength for 663% less money. Gideon, saying galvanized doesn't say much these days, with so many grades of chain available. What are the working strengths of the two chains you mention? Here is a length to various choices for chain at West: West Marine eCatalog 2007 - page 234
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:29   #54
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Alloy SAF 2507 (UNS S32750) is a Super Duplex Stainless Steel, with 25% chromium, 4% molybdenum, and 7% nickel.

What is 1447 ?

The retail cost of 316 S.S. chain is less than 3 times that of G-40 H.T. galvanized.
The Duplex chains we use are coded 1.4462 and are 30 % stronger than 316 TI or A 5 , The PRE number is 30.85 - 38,07 or 30.85 % to 38,85 % stronger than A 5 or 316 TI,,this is temperature dependant
My knowledge does not go any further but we have tested this chain and the breaking strenght was better than 5700 kilo for the 8 mm version at 20 C.

Greetings

The producer is Thiele GMBH in Germany
THIELE - Hersteller von Ketten, Förderketten, Bergbauketten, Hebezeugketten, Anschlagketten
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:41   #55
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I would say that 8 mm compares best with 3/8 inch
8 mm Duplex can take 5700 kilo of working strenght or 12400 lbs
3/8 of stainless by west marine t
has a safe working load of 3750 lbs
and galvanized can take 6600 lbs
prices are very high with west marine
stainless = 34.49 ft
galvanized = 9,99 ft
we pay 27 euro per meter or 12.50 usd per ft
I think this is a good trade of

Greetings
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:44   #56
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Working strength vs. breaking strength

I'm confused--it sounds like you are giving the same figures for breaking strength and working load. Of course, you say you tested it, but not to breaking. Do you know the breaking strength of your chain?
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:50   #57
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Safety factor?

What I am wondering is if you have a superior product, or simply a smaller safety factor, since you don't give the breaking strength of the duplex chain. It looks to me like West is using 300% as a safety factor. And no, you don't get good pricing from West-it is a big retail chain, which offers convenience rather than attractive pricing. Typically, the best pricing I have seen in the US has been from defender.com , but mileage may vary.
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Old 21-02-2008, 07:24   #58
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A company call Railinc down in Ft Luaderdale has about the best prices on Sunbrella that I have been able to find!
Do you have any contact info on them? Can't seem to google them...

Also, picked up a mooring mast for $20.00 at my little local supplier, the same went for $40 at West. Ebay has been very good and never have I been dissatisfied. The Ebay Stores are are helpful...purchased line at a big savings from Cajun Trading in Canada.

One of my favorite mail order suppliers is Defender Ind. in CT....great prices on just about everything.
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Old 21-02-2008, 07:32   #59
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I'm confused--it sounds like you are giving the same figures for breaking strength and working load. Of course, you say you tested it, but not to breaking. Do you know the breaking strength of your chain?

I am sorry to confuse you but these are all safe working load according to west marine for the galvanized and stainless chain and for the Duplex according to Thiele in Germany

Greetings
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Old 21-02-2008, 07:45   #60
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