Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-04-2012, 16:12   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6
Survey came back and there are issues

Hi all,

We put an offer on a 42' sailboat that we plan to liveaboard.

The offer that was accepted was 95k (ask price was 99k). We did a survey and sea trial last Friday and the boat came back with some issues. We are trying to decide if these are typical and we should be happy or if we should either renegotiate the price with the seller or even walk away.

There is a very similar model for sale for $120k that seems to be in at least as good of condition. (These are 25 year old boats, so only a survey would really be able to tell the condition.)

The big issues that were revealed on the survey:
- A half dozen to a dozen "non-structural" blisters
- Moisture readings of around .20 (vs .06 or so for the rest of the deck) around the windlass, chainplates and liferaft mounts
- A bunch of smaller issues that we can get fixed, such as rusting chainplates, a bent anchor, deteriorating stitching, nav lights not working, etc.

We're trying to decide if we should walk away since there is another boat on the market for $25k more, and if not, what we should come back to the seller with. For instance, asking them to lower their price (by how much?) or asking them to fix some of the other issues such as the nav lights, chain plates, etc?

Are they types of wet decks common? The survey said there has not been any delamination and that once fittings are rebedded it will eventually dry out.

Thanks,
Kevin
__________________

__________________
taylorsailors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 16:29   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,781
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

If that's all that came back on the boat.......imho there's nothing at all wrong with it. Unless the boat that's more than 20k more has new chainplates, new sails and canvas etc.....it's not new and never will be again.
__________________

__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 16:30   #3
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,320
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Most older boats willl have high moisture readings in those areas probably at least 1/2 the time there isn't aproblem at all. How did they sound with the old fashioned hammer test. you should talk to your surveyor more as they should have covered this with you right then and there (you were there weren't you?)

There again you could ask for a price reduction (you didn't squeeze every hard with your offer) ask them to correct the issue (they will probably walk) etc. or put an offer in for the other boat for the same amount you offered on ths one.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 16:31   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stuart Fl
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 692
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Kevin all on you,Finding any 25 yr olb boat without blisters IMO is almost impossible,the moisture areas you refere to are common unless rebedding was done every 2or 3 years,How much will the propere repairs cost?Get an estimate cut your offer by the ammount of the estimate plus 10 or 15 percent for hidden issues,lots of reasons to go forward why look at a boat for 25,000.00 more that may have the same problems plus more.All the seler can do is say no,probably won't IMO.
__________________
casual is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 16:36   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Boat: Nassau 42 SV Ceol Mor
Posts: 789
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

We had a similar finding of blisters on a 42 foot hull and asked for a reduction in price of 16k, the quoted price for the repair. Needless to say the actual bill came in at about 3k higher than the quote.

We found a bit of wetness around deck insertion points that did not show up on survey, We are fortunate that it was limited to a few inches around each deck insertion so we were able to recore, epoxy, reglass etc. We did this ourselves which is a good thing as I shudder to think how much this would cost as it has taken for.ever.

Rusty chainplates would mean I am darn sure going to make certain the bulkheads are solid and I would plan on replacing the chainplates. I say this because we learned this lesson the hard way and had to rebuild our bulkheads- cut out rot, scarph in new wood, epoxy, epoxy, epoxy, reglass.

Knowing what I know now, I would either ask for a reduction in price of about 50% or I would walk. Its not just the money for repairs, its the time and time DOES have a value.
__________________
S/V Ceol Mor
42 Nassau Undergoing refit in Kemah, Tx
Our little blog has moved: www.theceolmors.blogspot.com
Mimsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 16:56   #6
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 3,157
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Usually replacing chain plates is a PIA. And that means $$$. The CPs, bolts, etc. are usually behind stuff that you really don't want to tear out so the price goes up. Go inside and see if you can see them. If you can't then it's expensive. If you can then it's slight less expensive. Maybe.
__________________
We don't need no stinking badges.
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 17:09   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Boat: Hitchhiker, Catamaran, 40'
Posts: 354
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Come on, Kevin, give us some more information. This forum represents a vast resource of collective opinions and knowledge. At least tell us what type of boat it is and the general location. You are under contract to buy it, no one can snatch it out from under you. You should be able to get a lot of boat for that kind of money. You also shouldn't trust the surveyor to find everything. If you are going to own this boat you need to comb it over for deeper issues yourself. Question the rigging for example. Buy a pocket microscope and go examine the fittings and chainplates for hairline cracks. This is your big chance to get the price down. It is an exciting event to buy a boat and we want to give you advice but we can't get the satisfaction of doing that without more details. At least let us see the listing if there is one. This boat doesn't sound too offshore ready. and remember, you want to be cruisers, not just liveaboards.
__________________
Thumbs Up is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 17:18   #8
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorsailors View Post
We are trying to decide if these are typical and we should be happy or if we should either renegotiate the price with the seller or even walk away.
Yes, those issues are typical on a 25-year-old boat. You may want to look into how much it would cost a yard to replace the chainplates, and ask that the price be discounted this amount.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 17:38   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorsailors
Hi all,

We put an offer on a 42' sailboat that we plan to liveaboard.

The offer that was accepted was 95k (ask price was 99k). We did a survey and sea trial last Friday and the boat came back with some issues. We are trying to decide if these are typical and we should be happy or if we should either renegotiate the price with the seller or even walk away.

There is a very similar model for sale for $120k that seems to be in at least as good of condition. (These are 25 year old boats, so only a survey would really be able to tell the condition.)

The big issues that were revealed on the survey:
- A half dozen to a dozen "non-structural" blisters
- Moisture readings of around .20 (vs .06 or so for the rest of the deck) around the windlass, chainplates and liferaft mounts
- A bunch of smaller issues that we can get fixed, such as rusting chainplates, a bent anchor, deteriorating stitching, nav lights not working, etc.

We're trying to decide if we should walk away since there is another boat on the market for $25k more, and if not, what we should come back to the seller with. For instance, asking them to lower their price (by how much?) or asking them to fix some of the other issues such as the nav lights, chain plates, etc?

Are they types of wet decks common? The survey said there has not been any delamination and that once fittings are rebedded it will eventually dry out.

Thanks,
Kevin
The alarm for me is nav lights not working. Why?

The chainplates can and should be replaced or price discounted to replace. If the chainplates are deteriorated when was the standing rigging replaced. If greater than 8 years or so you should replace the standing rigging at the same time and factor this into the purchase.

The moisture doesnt concern me, neither the small blisters. I would take Dons advice to tap around with a ball peen hammer.

Back to the electrics, take a good look at the wiring throughout the boat and j-boxes. If it looks like crap, it probably is crap and you could be faced with chasing electric gremlins the rest of your life. It is unlikely a boat this old has not had extensive eletrical mods. If the quality of the mods is good then no problem. If it is the typical non sparky owner bodge job you could be inheriting headaches.

Finally, also on the electrics, what is the state of batteries and battery connections? Another high dollar replacement.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 17:51   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Based on your description only it sounds a bit over priced considering the issues described.
__________________
perchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 18:04   #11
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Hey, Don... I had the same reaction when I read that there were electrical problems. My experience is that elect. probs are like cockroaches, if you see one, there are many!
Hard to give an objective opinion on the scant info the OP provided but there should be some negotiating room from the survey items that turned up. Hopefully, the buyers went through the boat with a fine tooth comb (like spent at least a day on their backs and bellies crawling around, before the survey was even conducted... and yes they should have been there at the surveyors side every minute asking questions and opinions. Capt Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 18:12   #12
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Quote:- A bunch of smaller issues that we can get fixed, such as rusting chainplates, a bent anchor, deteriorating stitching, nav lights not working, etc. end Quote.

If this is how the surveyor described the issues. I say don't be a fool and sign on the dotted line. Sounds like a good find enjoy. Remember if you push too hard on minor defects, you could lose.
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 18:42   #13
Registered User
 
Vyndance's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ventura, CA
Boat: 48 Californian
Posts: 195
Images: 12
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

If no (none, zip, nada) navigation lights are working when switched on I would not be worried of this being a sign of major electrical problems.
__________________
Vyndance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 18:45   #14
Registered User
 
ShipShape's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 267
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

Blisters have never sunk a boat. Rusty chain plates? So?? Fabricate new chain plates - maybe $1000 for six of them - chain plates are consumable items, just like shrouds and water hoses, and should be renewed on a regular basis.

That you are posting your vague questions on this forum screams that you need to get a better surveyor - one that will walk you through every inch of the boats you are considering, explain everything in language you can understand, and answer all your questions.

Ask your broker for a list of surveyors he/she recommends, then pick one not on their list. If the surveyor isn't ecstatic about your attending the survey with him/her then find one who is. Look for a surveyor who charges by the hour, not by the foot.

Without intimate knowledge of the boat(s) you are considering, nobody - NOBODY - on this forum, or anywhere in the universe, can provide specifically helpful advice.
__________________
ShipShape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2012, 19:17   #15
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: Survey came back and there are issues

I think you have bought the boat and you know it. It is now nerves kicking in with all the "what ifs" running through you head. Those other boats that you have not surveyed may be better but they could also be worse. That survey, with all that was found at fault, would be one of the best seen. Remember Surveyors will never give A 100% perfect report, they will always find some thing in each or the major systems , its called CARE (cover ass retain employment). Buy the boat.
__________________

__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
survey

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.